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Friday, September 6, 2002 - 3:09pmSanction this postReply
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Is this a trick question? I doubt that the government could get away with 99.999% of the depravity it manages to foist on the public if it hadn't "schooled" citizens in the first place.

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Friday, September 6, 2002 - 8:05pmSanction this postReply
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Yes, but under a truly open market, we wouldn't have a state school system, so its first a question of moving to a market economy.

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Saturday, September 7, 2002 - 6:39amSanction this postReply
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I disagree Mark.

How does a society "move towards a market economy"? By means of periodic elections. And how do people decide whom to vote for? By means of deciding what's in their best interest.

Now where do they learn to think? In public schools, which do not teach children to think.

And where do they learn how to determine what's in their best interest? They don't. Schools teach children the virtue of altruism (which takes shape later in life as an attitude of entitlement).

The question is: what is the most effective political action that will result in long-term progress towards expanding the market economy and eliminating all socialised industries? The answer has got to be: eliminating public education.

I think that libertarians should focus on this one issue (which is close to the hearts of voting parents): "public education is socialised education and it's harming your children and their future".

Libertarians need to hammer home this point at every available opportunity and to develop compelling private education solutions that competing political parties would be ashamed to oppose.

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Saturday, September 7, 2002 - 5:33pmSanction this postReply
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Barry, You sound like a twenty-first c. version of Herbert Spencer. I think that your idea is correct fundamentally. The prospects of making it happen seem daunting. I wrote a paper for an English course on Matthew Arnold's "Culture and Anarchy" presenting his critique of "Philistinism" (an epithet for XIXth c. middle class). My professor was a Marxist who loathed Herbert Spencer's libertarianism. I got an A on my paper. His comments were that he had never seen anyone critique the whole concept of public education using Herbert Spencer (Social Statics) versus Matthew Arnold (the grandfather of modern public education).

In the USA Marxists were able to gain ascendancy via public education (thank you to FDR and the New Deal) They secured tenure for their colleagues and showed Americans at large that they were "good people" with American interests at heart. All of this happening while Rand was quibbling with Rothbard over anarchy and performing ex-communications. Alan Greenspan was still trying to figure out if existence exists, and the Republicans were the only ones left to confront the statist advances.

Yes, today "Johnny" can't read or write but he knows the world needs love and self-sacrifice. He "feels" an overwhelming sense to get his "feelings" down on paper, but he can't think. When he becomes a university professor he writes papers and books that include sentences like this one about Shakespeare: "...Of course Jacobean tragedy does effect some kind of closure, but it is usually a perfunctory rather than a profound reassertion of order [providential and political]. We may feel that such closure was a kind of condition for subversive thought to be forgrounded at all. But we should recognize too that such a condition cannot control what it permits: closure could never retrospectively guarantee ideological erasure of what, for a while, existed prior to and so independently of it." Don't worry that I am taking it out of context, it didn't make sense there either:)

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Saturday, September 7, 2002 - 5:54pmSanction this postReply
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Barry, Do you think Objectivists should copy the techniques of marxists and use intellectual sophistication and subversion to persuade? What I did was something like that. I used Herbert Spencer against Matthew Arnold and slipped in Rand through the back. I didn't plagiarize, I applied. What do you think of Sciabarra's "rescue mission" for dialectics? i.e. putting it back into its Hellenic context and ripping out its marxist and hegelian ideological plumes? I must admit I have never seen anyone take dialectics away from the marxists. It was like watching the ideological candy taken away from the altruist baby and watch him cry selfishly. To acuse a socialist of an intellectual monopoly, or a monopoly of any kind is an intellectual tour de force.

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Sunday, September 8, 2002 - 4:01amSanction this postReply
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Hi Anthony

I think that copying the techniques of Marxists -- using intellectual sophistication and subversion to persuade -- is likely to be successful in an academic context. But I wouldn't say that this is something that Objectivists "should" do per se. We all have our own contexts after all.

I think that Objectivists planning academic careers can learn a great deal from the example of Chris Sciabarra. The style of his work has as great an impact on academic readers as the content .

I think his work on dialectics has great potential to reach academics who find themselves on the margin between collectivist thinking and individualist thinking. And, for those who are already individualists, his ideas provide new avenues for thought, new arguments, new ways of exploring and expressing complex thoughts.

Non-academic readers such as myself can also benefit. For example, I am using several of Chris's insights from Ayn Rand: The Russian Radical in the development of my book for preteens: Discover Freoland.

See www.freoland.com.

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