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Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 1:58pmSanction this postReply
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I can't believe that esthetics is winning this poll. Can someone who has voted for it please tell me why this needs more attention than metaphysics, et al.

I do not understand ?

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Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 3:34pmSanction this postReply
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I would say Objectivist Metaphysics is well developed. I don't understand your lack of understanding...

Post 2

Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 8:33pmSanction this postReply
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Well, I vote for 'Translation'!

Truly though Mark, the metaphysics seems simple to me, but I am not an academic philosopher and that may be at the crux of it. Reality exists to me is priceless and sums it up nicely. I know there are these convuluted arguments about how to prove it in academic circles .. honestly, I don't understand half of it and so can't comment further. LOL!

For living everyday life, it's enough for me.

What I think needs to be worked on is a more 'practical' approach to Objectivism needs work.

Most that could benefit from this philosophy aren't academics and could care less about those kinds of arguments. They want facts that are usable everyday, for LIVING. :)

Joy :)

Post 3

Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 11:31pmSanction this postReply
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That is a very open ended question, isn't it? I mean "further" development in the sense of theoretical research from philosophers or looking out at the world and seeing a need for better solutions?

I think that politics is doing very well, most objectivist forums are bursting with discussions about ethical/political issues. There are also lots of philosophers/scholars doing serious work in that area, like Sciabarra and Kelly, and in practice we have seen the fall of the Berlin Wall and that "capitalism" is not the dirty word it used to be.

Issues about reasoning/epistemology seem to be also prevalent on the forums, but I don't know much about the state of debate in philosophical circles. In practice, I did have first hand experience of going through a trial, and the Judge was brilliant in the way he reasoned. Though in contrast to that I don't see good reasoning behind the ARI apologias that have popped up in the last year.

Though I have written about metaphysical value judgements in art I don't know much about the branch of metaphysics in philosophy.

Recently I read the book, The Art of Happiness, by the Dalai Lama. It was co-written by a psychiatrist, and though I really enjoyed ALL the quotes of the Dalai Lama, I found that psychiatrist to be…pathetic, one example was that he was surprised that happiness should be a standard of mental health. (?) If he is a typical practitioner of psychiatry, than it has a long way to go.

I do think that the arts and aesthetics are in a very immature state or even in a sub-human state of being. If one thinks of "high" art forms like symphonic music, opera, architecture, sculpture, painting (in the contemporary museums), literature (epic), and we compare the 20th Century to the 19th Century it is with sad results. When is the last time you have attended a world premier of an opera, a symphony?--those forms are dead in the sense of contemporary compositions. Representation painting and sculpture are dead forms to the eyes and aesthetic viability of contemporary institutions. Discounting Rand, recent epic literature? Though I think there are many interesting things happening in architecture--but I think that modern cities look like they are junk-filled, compared to the boulevards, plazas, parks that were a worldwide phenomenon in the 19th Century. Contemporary aesthetic analysis has disintegrated into the subjective analysis, pick up any serious art magazine or art journal for examples of everything but an evaluation of the artwork.

Though I didn't vote in this poll, I would enjoy seeing a rigorous and ruthlessly reasoned development in aesthetics by philosophers and scholars.

Newberry

Post 4

Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 2:30amSanction this postReply
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Sorry. Joy's admonition regarding 'translation' applies in the case of my question. I actually read the question something along the lines of, ... needs further development 'in the minds of the public' or some such thing. That is, a political perspective of making objectivism visible, or getting it 'out there' in the public. To this end, I thought that metaphysics was the most important to promulgate, followed by epistemology and politics, with aesthetics last (the primary need being to show the relevance of objectivism for building a new and better world). I suspect, however, the question meant more which of the polled alternatives has been developed the least, within the philosophy of objectivism. Context :)

This is a SOLO site, not too concerned with an overtly political function.

Regarding the probable question, however,(well sort of), how many Atlas Shrugged or Fountainhead's can actually be written? As good as these novels are, after a while the plots would all be pretty repetitive.

Yeah, I know, philistine.

Post 5

Friday, August 23, 2002 - 3:48amSanction this postReply
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I really don't think that you can develop much on the statement existence exists without asking why it exists. Then you'd find yourself eventually contradicting the axiom or treading where Aristotle wouldn't dare. Even semioticians are coming around. Read Umberto Eco's Kant and the Platypus, he actually says after a long apologia and 26 years of thoughtful silence and reflection: "Being exists". I couldn't believe it, the leader of Italian culture and the uncle of semiotics (that's the science of signs) affirming Rand's first axiom. In my opinion the whole problem with metaphysics is that it has been too developed, and usually in the wrong directions.

I think there is much more work that can be accomplished in the area of epistemology especially!! as it pertains to the development of ideology which Rand only hinted at. She called it something like a bridge between epistemology and politics. It too needs to be wrested away from the marxists who believe they hold a monopoly on that and dialectics. I'd like to see a book out "Objectivist Ideology" to give the conservatives a kick in the ass and the socialists one less job in the academe. Ethics and politics, Objectivism screams them, it's time to tone that area down. I like Kelley's Unrugged Individualism and I'd like to see Objectivists be seen as nice descent people (kind of like the people on Solo HQ) instead of nature red in tooth and claw.

Aesthetics, no one seems to want to touch it. Evil stepchild. Everytime an Objectivists touches on something new they get shot in the leg over it. There is some very interesting work being done by Vacker, Minsaas and Cox (in literary theory). There is still no mainstream academic voice promoting an Objectivist Aesthetic. Rand's Manifesto sounded like the little Russian standing on her soap box compared to the bulldozer statements made earlier in the twentieth century (Futrists, Vortex, Surrealists, Dada, Doodoo, and hoodoo voodoo, etc):) If someone were to write another Manifesto I think they should be shot. If that were to happen within Objectivism it would be tantamount to taking the wind out of Rand's sail. Though aesthetics seems to be largely untapped in Objectivist critical theory (if we may call it that) remember that The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged actually fit under the Romantic Manifesto (that's a small hen to cover such large golden eggs):) Yeah, the more I think about Objectivist aesthetics really sucks the big one when it comes to theory. I wish she would have written more than a justification for why she liked Hugo, Schiller, Rostand, and well you know the drill. It's all about posturing which works well in Aestheticism but not for aesthetics. Sorry if I sound too down on it, it's only because I want people who are listening to help make it better. Maybe a good ideology could back up a descent art manifesto, who knows?

Post 6

Sunday, September 1, 2002 - 9:49amSanction this postReply
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I voted politics, but esthetics is a close second or even an equal candidate.

Politics because the Objectivist politics contains some glaring contradictions.

Esthetics because it's so underdeveloped, so un-thought out that it almost makes one wonder if there *could* be a philosophy of art, if this is its current state after 10,000 years of humanity.

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