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Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:53amSanction this postReply
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While reading one of Mr. Stolyarov's posts recently, I felt motivated to get back to the basic ethical premise of Objectivism. An ethical question is basically one that answers the question "what should I do, given __?"

The answer that one gives will rest largely on the way by which one answers the question "how do I decide what I should do?" For most, this is an unanswered question. Others believe that they should decide how they decide what to do based on what is seen as right in society, a religion, or another figure. I imagine that the Objectivist answer is "We should do what is in our rational self-interest."

The answer then leads into the whole discussion of ethics. If we take Objectivism's answer above - please correct me if it is at all innacurate - we should continue to ask "Why?" until we come down to what I suppose we could call (an) axiom(s). I feel silly asking, but I can't come to a satisfactory answer. I suppose an effective response would begin by answering the "Why should we do what is in our rational self-interest?" and answer all the "whys" that stem from that.

I can effectively answer why a rational being does that which (it believes) is in its self-interest, but not why it SHOULD. I feel silly because of the simplicity, but I can't explain it in a way that satisfies me.

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Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 11:02amSanction this postReply
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Joseph, please give your context and refer to Gennady's post by link, url, or name, number, and forum.

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Post 2

Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:07pmSanction this postReply
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Joseph Funk writes,
[W]e should continue to ask "Why?" until we come down to what I suppose we could call (an) axiom(s). I feel silly asking, but I can't come to a satisfactory answer. I suppose an effective response would begin by answering the "Why should we do what is in our rational self-interest?" and answer all the "whys" that stem from that.

I can effectively answer why a rational being does that which (it believes) is in its self-interest, but not why it SHOULD. I feel silly because of the simplicity, but I can't explain it in a way that satisfies me.
The concept "should" presupposes and ultimate end or value, which one is seeking to satisfy. To say that one "should" make certain choices simply means that if one does, one will gain that which one (ultimately) values, namely, one's own happiness. The reason we should do what is in our rational self-interest is that if we don't, we won't be happy. It makes no sense to ask why we should pursue our own happiness, because there is nothing beyond our own happiness for the sake of which we should pursue it. In other words, there is nothing for which our own happiness is worth pursuing as a means, which there would have to be if it made sense to ask why we should pursue it. Our own happiness is self-evidently a value; it is valuable for its own sake, and is not a means to any further value.

Allow me to quote a passage from Rand's novel Anthem which expresses this point beautifully and succinctly:
I know not if this earth on which I stand is the core of the universe or if it is but a speck of dust lost in eternity. I know not and I care not. For I know what happiness is possible to me on earth. And my happiness needs no higher aim to vindicate it. My happiness is not the means to any end. It is the end. It is its own goal. It is its own purpose.
-Bill



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Friday, June 20, 2008 - 8:35pmSanction this postReply
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There are many things one could choose as the basis goal(s) for one's moral system. In Objectivism, at least to me, one chooses to live a healthy lifestyle, learn to live well and seek truth, desire economic freedom & security, enjoy the simple pleasures of life, and be productive in ways that enhance these things for myself and friends. Of course, one need not adopt an Objectivist's basis for their moral system/ an Objectivist's goals. One could choose anything.

You cannot deduce that a person should have a particular basis goal for their moral system-- at least not one that would be valid to that person unless that person already had some goal. If you do have a goal, then you can deduce other goals that help achieve this goal. Agreed?

If you do not have any goals, then what? You do nothing? If you do not die when you have no goals, then maybe eventually you will decide to have a goal, and then you may begin pursuing courses of action to achieve the goal.

I'm afraid I may be rambling if I write any more. What do you think?

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Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 9:39pmSanction this postReply
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Dean,

As I say, it is my view and, I think, Objectivism's, that people value happiness naturally, so that their own happiness (and the successful state of life that accompanies it), is their highest value. Morality enters the picture only to prescribe the means to its achievement, so that what one "ought" to do is only what will contribute to that value. Happiness is one's highest moral purpose, not because one has chosen it as such, but because it is in fact one's highest value, whether one recognizes it or not.

- Bill

Post 5

Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 9:26amSanction this postReply
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I agree with Bill.

Ed


References:
http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Thompson/Human_Happiness_The_only_kind_there_is.shtml

http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Thompson/The_4_Main_Kinds_of_Ethics_An_Introduction.shtml


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Monday, June 23, 2008 - 10:31amSanction this postReply
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Funk,

It sounds like you're having troubling bridging the "is-ought" gap, which Rand addressed in "The Objectivist Ethics." She claims that what a thing is determines what it ought to do. That is, what is good or bad for an individual is determined by its nature. Some stuff is good at enhancing and maintaining an individual; other stuff damages or destroys it. Rand goes on to argue that happiness is the individual's reward for enhancing or maintaining her or his nature. In short: further life, and happiness follows.

Pretty similar to the other answers...
Jordan






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