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Thursday, June 14, 2007 - 10:02pmSanction this postReply
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"All Sciences require a philosophy with which to interpret discoveries and data."

I've just finished up a course of Psychology. Originally, I had intended to take Anthropology, but alas, it was cancelled due to insufficient roster. This led me to switching over to Psych, as it fit the requirements for my degree and schedule. I was fairly reluctant, being that I was already aware of bad philosophy in certain areas of psychology - i.e. materialism. Even before this course, I was already dissecting and refuting various statements and claims just skimming through the "Psychology Today" (pop psychology) magazines I'd frequent from time to time.

Well, during this course, I came across what may very well be the hardest, toughest case of all determinist arguments - one that I couldn't easily refute at hand (unless I were to simply question the entire validity of it all). It involves, as the title indicates, genetics and identical twins.

Case study number 1:

The case-study involves identical twins seperated at birth. Jim, 38 years after having been born, went about a normal day in Febuary '79. It was after divorcing his first wife Linda. He had a second wife, named Betty. Jim was the romantic and affectionate type, and had consequently made it a habit to leave love notes to Betty. While laying in bed, Jim would constantly think about others he loved, e.g. his son, and dog.

Jim also built a workshop in the corner of his basement, with a hobby in woodworking. He enjoyed building furniture, frames, benches - one of which was a circular white bench around a tree in his front yard. Jim also liked to drive his Chevy, watch Nascar, and drink Miller Lite beer.

Jim also had a vasectomy, and had moderately high blood pressure - which is likely due to his chain smoking habit. He chewed his fingernails to the skin. And occasionally suffered half-day migraine headaches. He'd also been overweight, but had regained moderate body weight.

Strangely enough, at that same moment, there existed another man - also named Jim - for whom all (ALL) these things were also true - right down to the dog's name.

Case study number 2:

Identical twins Oskar Stohr and Jack Yufe - seperated at birth, once again. One was raised by his grandmother as a Catholic Nazi, while the other was raised by his father, as a Jew in the Caribbean. Yet, they share identical traits and habits. They both like spicy foods, sweet liqueurs, have a habit of falling asleep in front of the TV, flush the toilet before using it, store rubber bands on their wrists, and dip buttered toast in their coffee.




This is seriously Twilight Zone stuff, people.
Now, of course, the immediate issue I took with all this is the issue of free-will. I even asked in class, and didn't get a good answer. The teacher replied, "Your free will is an expression of who you are..." Which, she goes on to add, is genetically influenced.

But again, my trifle with that is this goes far, far, beyond mere "influences". When identical twins are doing identical things to the finest details (buttered toast in coffee - same name for dogs, etc..), this is not mere "influence". It's complete and total control; fatalism; determinism - hardcore determinism, at that.

So, my question then, is if all the facts at hand regarding twin case-studies are true, then how does the Objectivist advocate of free-will interpret such discoveries and data, that is consistent with free will and volition?


Post 1

Friday, June 15, 2007 - 1:24amSanction this postReply
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Despite that there are an extreme number of similarities between genetically "identical" twins, they have experienced different things, thought different things, think using different processes, and chose different things. The genetic code tells how to build a tree, but two trees of the same genes grow differently. Why? All sorts of reasons. Your brain changes its state and the processes it performs (firing neurons performing learning, problem solving, and executive processes) through self (thought) and external (sensory) causes. Way more complex than a tree, yet still follows through the same set of Laws that the rest of Reality follows.

I'm a compatibilist (which many think contradict Objectivism), and we don't know Exactly how the nervous system works. Others come to say quantum effect this and walla that.

Overcome your depression that your thoughts and actions are 100% determined by the Laws of Reality going through its process. Your purpose or lack of is independent of this fact.

The existence of morality doesn't hinge on free will. Having knowledge of how your mind works may change your goal system, but not negate morality. A person's morality is their system of ideas and processes whose purpose is to determine what they should do. Mentally active people that execute their plans have systems of ideas and thought processes for the purpose of determining what they should do. Such people have moral systems. Such people exist. Hence morality exists.

Free will is one's observation that one's own mental logical processes, feelings, and sensory all strongly influence... cause one's continual mental process. That one's own logical mental processes can have the strongest casual effect on one's own logical mental process. Also that one's mental process includes self chosen and driven purpose.

Choices are ideas. A choice is an idea, a plan, a set of actions. To decide is to select a plan to execute. One could still choose whether to follow through, one is continually making choices, what we had done was the result of the decisions that we we had actually followed through with.

One can perform all sorts of mental and physical operations to determine which choice is best to follow through with. "All sorts"... there is an infinite number of plans and ways to compare plans. Free will: your own mental process for the most part self determines what plans you will think about, what comparisons you will make, what conclusions you come to, what decisions you make, and what you follow through on.

The best

Post 2

Friday, June 15, 2007 - 10:17amSanction this postReply
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Warren,

This is spooky stuff, but I don't think it contradicts free will (at least not the Objectivist view, and I say this, as a determinst). Free will, according to Objectivism, is a highly circumscribed faculty. "[T]hat which you call "free will" is your mind's freedom to think or not, the only will you have, your only freedom, the choice that controls all the choices you make and determines your life and your character." (Rand, Atlas Shrugged, p. 1017, hb.) Obviously, the choice to think or not to think is not made in a vacuum, but within a genetic and environmental context. So Objectivism would not deny that these other, deterministic factors can bear a strong influence on one's life, choice of career and other concrete values.

- Bill

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Post 3

Friday, June 15, 2007 - 12:25pmSanction this postReply
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Warren, such interesting cases have been in the news for a long time, and they are indeed quite interesting. But consider three things:

First, are these circumstances, having a dog, being divorced and remarried, having extremely common names in common, and so forth truly all that remarkable in a country of 300 Million? And for people being born at the same time and having grown up in similar environments?

Second, consider the sample bias. How many identical twins separated at birth who do not share so many similarities are documented and presented to the public as interesting cases?

James Madison and Thomas Jefferson both served as president of the United States. They both played important roles in the America Revolution. They both kept up a long habit of personal correspondence. They both died on the same day, July 4, 1826. Madison's last words were that "Jefferson lives." Were these two men identical twins?

Ted

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Friday, June 15, 2007 - 1:29pmSanction this postReply
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Ted, I thought that was John Adams, not Madison.

One note on this...I wonder if we took two random people, went through all of their habits, preferences, etc., how many points of overlap there would be. If we picked out the more uncommon ones, it might seem very meaningful.

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Friday, June 15, 2007 - 11:36pmSanction this postReply
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Second, consider the sample bias. How many identical twins separated at birth who do not share so many similarities are documented and presented to the public as interesting cases?
Exactly! We notice the odd cases, and pay no attention to the others, but the laws of probability don't discriminate. Coincidences happen precisely because they are as much a part of the causal pattern as non-coincidences. I was watching 20/20 tonight, and one of the hosts interviewed a woman who had won a million dollars in a lottery twice! How likely is that? But someone had to win on each occasion, and it just happened to be she on both.

If the odds are one in a million, that doesn't mean that the event will never occur. Otherwise, the chance of its occurrence would be zero, not a very small number greater than zero. We tend to think that if a very unlikely event occurs, it is defying the odds, when in fact it is fully in accord with them. In order to defy the odds, its occurrence would have to be frequent, not infrequent.

- Bill
(Edited by William Dwyer
on 6/16, 8:54am)


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Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 3:28pmSanction this postReply
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Of course, I do think that many of the similarities in twins raised apart may indeed have a constitutional (genetic) basis. But what is truly relevant as a proof is to show how the proteins and regulatory genes can lead to higher order phenomena. Naming your cats the same just doesn't cut it. But twins choosing similar professions may have to do with their level of intelligence and other chemically influenced personality traits such as risk-seeking or extroversion. One particularly interesting fact is that while identical twins do show a correlation in sexual preference, it is nowhere near 100%.


Joe, you're right about Madison and Adams, I always mix that one up.

Ted
(Edited by Ted Keer
on 6/16, 3:47pm)


Post 7

Saturday, June 16, 2007 - 6:19pmSanction this postReply
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This is a famous study.  There have been others, before and since, but this is where you start if you want to know more.

Minnesota Twin Family Study
Minnesota Twin Registry
Minnesota Twin Study of Adult Development
Minnesota Twin Family Study (Male Project)
Minnesota Twin Family Study (Female Project)

http://www.psych.umn.edu/psylabs/mtfs/

I wrote a paper for a seminar class in criminal justice on the genetic basis of behavior.  These twin studies raise a lot of questions.  If you are interested in pursuing this, you should avail yourself of the substantive literature.


Post 8

Sunday, June 17, 2007 - 10:37pmSanction this postReply
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What if all crime were known to be genetically determined?  What if crime is always a matter of environment only?  Would we truly need prisons in both cases, or in neither?  It is important to parse the questions. 

            To say that the propensity to steal appears in 40% of the population is different from saying that Jane Smith is 40% likely to steal. 

            While we might say that Jane Smith cannot choose the color of her eyes at birth, we know that she can change their apparent color by wearing contact lenses.  Thus, even if it were known that a given individual were 100% genetically predetermined to commit murder, it would still be possible to put that person in a uniform, and send them out to defend their country, thus coloring with a moral purpose their otherwise immoral acts.  Moreover, diabetes is just one example of a genetically determined disease for which we do have remedies.  Discovering the gene (or genes) for murder could be the first step to the eradication of the disease.  Any investigation of the hereditability of criminality rests on a definition of “crime.” 

            If we can inherit homosexuality and alcoholism, what of impulsivity and irritability, both of which are classically regarded as factors in criminality?  What if greed is inherited?  The heritability of behavior becomes critical in a society that recognizes “gay marriage” as a lawful union.  We may have reached a point where we fail to recognize any behavior as mala in se and admit that all crimes are mala prohibita.  Thus, rather than criminalizing the behaviors of statistical minorities, we should be protecting their rights to diversity.  Should that include those who are genetically predisposed to rape … or to murder?

 

Crime and Genes: to what extent is human behavior genetically determined?
by Michael E. Marotta



Post 9

Monday, June 18, 2007 - 12:54amSanction this postReply
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Michael,

A good deal of behavioral tenancies and abilities are genetically determined. You simply cannot and never could predict someones behavior to the point where you can say "You will commit murder" with 100% certainty, before they ever commit a single murder. The human brain changes itself and is influenced by all past experiences and actions, which are all not contained in DNA. The information simply isn't there to be able to make such a prediction. And the information is not accessible, unless you plan on creating some molecular machines that can examine the neural link structure and each neuron's molecules (which is not DNA).

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Monday, June 18, 2007 - 9:31amSanction this postReply
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I know some genetic identical twins who have different personalities in a number of areas - they sure look the same, though.

Another thought occurs to me - how many people actually exercise free will vs. how many people just go along for the ride?  I think most people just go along for the ride - and this means they will be far more likely to make the genetically programmed choices.


Post 11

Monday, June 18, 2007 - 1:12pmSanction this postReply
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Another thought occurs to me - how many people actually exercise free will vs. how many people just go along for the ride?  I think most people just go along for the ride - and this means they will be far more likely to make the genetically programmed choices.
Kurt, I was thinking the same thing. These cases outline above deal with separated twins from birth. I know that most siblings who grow up together, tend to differ from each other as they are building their sense of selves, identities and personalities. This behavior is pretty common across people who grow up together regardless of their biological relationship - be they identical or fraternal twins, step siblings, or whatelse.

In light of that, I've considered the nature vs nurture perspective. Nature in this case, being genetics and nurture being the individual's volition. The degree of volition we practice is proportionate to the scope of thinking/rationality we employ, and is also the degree of nurture we give to ourselves.

The cause in both cases - differing from one another and drifting just alike - is the same: the thought-processes which govern the person's behavior. This is consistent with Aristotle's tenet that "Man is the rational animal", and with the principles of free-will in Objectivist philosophy.


Post 12

Monday, June 18, 2007 - 8:02pmSanction this postReply
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In mathematics, we use the equals = sign to mean something different from ¡°identity.¡±  We say that 2+ 2 = 4 but only 4 ≡ 4.  It may be that 2 + 2 can be recast as 4 which is identical to 4, but as stated, equality is not identity.  Therefore, it is important to understand that whether considering human beings, bees, cells or retroviruses, no two living things may ever be truly identical [Fox].  Identical twins do not have identical fingerprints.  Monozygotic twins can be different in height, weight, IQ, and general behavior; and one can even have Downs syndrome, and the other not [Corliss].
 

The summary is unequivocal: °For almost every behavioral trait so far investigated, from reaction time to religiosity, an important fraction of the variation among people turns out to be associated with genetic variation. This fact need no longer be subject to debate; rather, it is time instead to consider its implications [Bouchard 1990].¡± ¡­ Perhaps the single most surprising consequence is the conclusion that ¡°being reared by the same parents in the same physical environment does not, on average, make siblings more alike as adults than they would have been if reared separately in adoptive homes. [Bouchard 1990]¡±¡­  The correlations between genetically unrelated individuals reflect only environmental influences and suggest a common family environmental effect of about 5 percent [Bouchard 1982].¡±  In other words, who we are is 95% genetic. ...

[M]onozygotic twins are about twice as likely to have identical fingerprint ridge counts and heights as dizygotic twins.
 

Contrary to simple positivism, identical twins raised in the same household actually are only 85% likely to have IQs within one standard deviation of each other.  Obviously, something else is at work and the traditional name for that is free will. 

 

That is the answer to the challenge posed by Kaplan at the head of this paper.  How is it that some people react to a stimulus one way, but others do so another?  We have numbers for statistically significant groups, but they tell us nothing about individuals.

 

While ¡°intelligence¡± was offered as an indicator of criminality in the 19th century, today, we like to think that we have a more sophisticated understanding of what makes someone socially deviant.  When we look at extroversion, impulsivity, etc., we find that MZTs are about twice as likely to have similar scores on a set of measurements than are DZTs.  However, being neurotic, dominant and inflexible may or may not make someone a criminal.  The classic case of psychological profiling in a criminal investigation was psychiatrist James Brussels¡¯s identification of ¡°mad bomber¡± George P. Metesky.  Introverted, very neat, educated, Catholic, suburban and a ¡°button down¡± middle aged man, Metesky¡¯s criminality seemingly has nothing to do with his personality.  We accept it is obvious that impulsivity can correlate with criminality, but does neatness count? 

 

The link between criminality and aggression may be intuitively obvious, but it deserves inspection.  Not all violence is criminal and not all crimes are violent.  However, the chemical basis of aggression has been firmly established.  Similarly, we know that impulsivity correlates to the presence of certain chemicals in the brain.  Consequently, it is no surprise that in addition to well-established agents such as serotonin, there exist a multiplicity of such chemicals whose levels (or ¡°imbalances¡±) not only predict, but nearly demand aggressive conduct of a kind often prohibited by law.  Not surprising then, is the finding that aggressive behavior in an adopted child correlates closely with similar aggressive behavior in the biological, not their adoptive, parent.  [Lee.]

 

And yet, as any ancient Greek philosopher could have pointed out, there is space between the atoms.  ¡°Behavioural genetic studies determine the lower limit of biological contribution to temperament and behaviour.  Genes cannot account for all of the biological contributions to behavior, nor can they dictate the interaction between the environment, the brain, and personality [Lee].¡±  In other words, the numbers do not completely describe the events.  This fact is the central theme of the 1980 symposium, ¡°Individuality and Determinism¡± sponsored by Sidney W. Fox.  A series of papers and presentations by academic researchers created an edifice of proof that the genetic definitions of who and what we are determines that each of us must be a unique individual.  It is impossible metaphysically and ontologically for any two people to be identical. Materialist determinism demands that each of us be unique.  Among the papers and presentations were "Individuality in Bacteria and Its Relationship to Higher Species" by Daniel E. Koshland, Jr., and "Molecular Genetics and Individuality" by William J. Rutter. 

            The most subtle article came from Koichiro Matsumo, who showed that the second law of thermodynamics demands that each successive iteration always be different from its parent state.  Furthermore, Matsumo claimed, material aggregate open to material flow constrains the number of degrees of internal freedom.  In other words, physical reality limits the kinds of changes that anything can undergo without outside input.  These two principles  the demand for change and limits to change are the dynamic interplay that makes every entity in the universe unique.

 
Marotta, ibid

.



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