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Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 4:00amSanction this postReply
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Nowadays many self-proclaimed "Austrian" scholars in C(h)i(n)a  sometimes emphasize that we must revere "our tradition" in order to build a liberal society, otherwise we would commit the mistakes that Co-mm-u-ni$-m has committed: the fatal conceit of "reason". The "revere" here means to abide by the traditional customs and ethical codes. They say that this is the key of Hayek¡¯s theory and further more, every "genuine liberalist theories".

 

Some lib*era_list literature have been translated into C~h~ine~$e, including Hayek's Con-stit-ut-ion of Liberty, The Fatal Conceit, The Road to Se-rf-dom, Bruno Leoni's L_ib_erty and Law, Bastiat's Economic Harmonies, Mises's Free and Prosperous Commonwealth (having been prohibited. In C*h*i*n*a, some thing that was once le-gal would become il-le-gal later.). I think what these books tell is that we cannot deliberately change the social mores on the basis of some manmade blueprints. (Such as planned economy and the annulment of money, which is based on Marx's historical materialism.) I don't think this is "revere", because they don't condemn the spontaneous change of the society. If we must revere tradition, any change (spontaneous or not) on that should be condemned, and we must try whatever to rescue it from "degeneration". I think this is not the road to freedom but the road to Saudi Arabia or Taliban.

 

My misgiving lies in the three points

 

1*  C~h~ine~$e culture is the culture of de-spo-tism. When C~h~ine~$e people followed (or revered) this kind of culture unconditionally, they only trapped into an endless misery. How could a culture of de_spo=tism give birth to fre-ed-om without changing itself? Nowadays many websites are talking about the new Iraqi Co~nsti~tu~tion, which claims Sharia should be the source of the h_um_an  ri_g_hts. The same question applies to this too.

 

2*  How do we balance the fixedness and fluidity? If we must revere traditional mores, how does a society accept the changes on the mores? Let them alone or reject them to some degree? If we choose to let these changes take place, How much power do the conservatives have to impose their favored traditions on the society and how much power do the enlighteners have to impose their new ideals on the society? Or do these two opposite parties have the equal rights and chances to advocate their irreconcilable ideology? If a person act in a different way than the "standard" moral codes but she/he does never initiate any force against anyone, should we build a society of tolerance in which no one would consciously discriminate them because of their harmless "non-standard" action?

 

3*  Several months ago, some conservative intellectuals intended to launch the "reading classics movement", which would compel school students to read those curios like Analects of Confucius, Dao De Jing, etc.  But the present situation is that most C~h~ine~$e people don't know exactly what these curios said. If we must "revere" something, would it be proper to revere the status quo rather than the defunct ancient spirituality? Does the act of equipping people with the now defunct ancient spirituality deliberately constitute a kind of social engineering, which violates the thought of Hayek?

 

Hope someone can dismiss my confusion.


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Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 5:37amSanction this postReply
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Excuse me, but is there a reason you're spelling names like 'China' in such an odd fashion? Are you doing this to get past Red China's "Great Firewall" of censorship?

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 8:53amSanction this postReply
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F;em;ino:

The phenomena you are seeing are at the core of A+y+n R-a-n-d's critique of Conservatism. How much of it do you have access to?

[The purpose of the p+u+n-c-t*u/a+t(i+o+n) is, indeed to get past the b+o(t-s).]

(Edited by Adam Reed
on 8/25, 8:54am)


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Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 9:38amSanction this postReply
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Femino,

Hayek did not write that we should "revere" tradition.  I think he would be appalled at the prospect of doing that.  He did argue that we should be leery of revolutionaries who want to tear down customs and institutions to make way for unproven, usually utopian, projects.  He reasoned that tradition often embodies useful practices and know-how that make social interaction more efficient, therefore we should be careful about what we change.

Hayek was especially concerned about this regarding the rule of law.  He thought that we get more benefit from the predictability of an imperfect law, especially constitutional law, than radically uprooting everything that might on occasion create an injustice.  Basically, Hayek counseled against throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Andy


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Friday, August 26, 2005 - 3:56amSanction this postReply
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I do see they advise people to be cautious of revolutionaries which are intended to tear down customs and institutions to make way for utopian projects. I agree with them, because C+h+i+n+a is seriously impaired by Ma~rx's and Le~nin's uto~pian ideals. But this is just one side of this question. I'm more interested in the "change" aspect. I find merely no one have work on this question. If we find traditional mores embody harmful practices and prevent us from asking why we should do some things which seem bad for us (this is usually the case), -----we have known that we should not appeal to political power to reform moral codes, ----- we have to do it through a nongovernmental way, usually do it myself ------ I myself resolutely abandon some traditional mores regardless what people would say. (Suppose the abandonment doesn't violation the principle of non-initiation of force and the result is the improvement of my own life.) Thus everyone can guess that I would incur much hostility from people around me. The question is: am I wrong or are these people wrong? If I'm wrong, then the criterion of evaluation is what most people always do: whatever most people do is right, thus no objective goodness. If I'm right while these people are wrong, then we must conclude that the tradition (at least in this regard) is wrong, so it needs to be amended. But who have the right to improve the mores, and how could we improve it (besides social engineering)? If the society is hostile to some actions which absolutely have nothing to do with anyone else and are absolutely harmless, then who is wrong?


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Friday, August 26, 2005 - 9:30amSanction this postReply
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Femino,
The question is: am I wrong or are these people wrong?
You are the one on the right track.  I recommend researching Edmund Burke.  He was an 18th-century English politician who dealt with the issues you are raising in response to both the American Revolution, which he supported, and the French Revolution, which he loathed.  Much of what is right with modern conservatism is what it takes from Burke.

There is no formula for deciding what to reform and what to preserve in society.  There are two reasons.  First, any question of change is very fact-intensive.  Principles will guide decisions for reform or even revolution, but nothing other than an objective rational assessment of the facts can ensure the right decision.  Second, a just reform is not enacted collectively.  It is the aggregate result of individuals making the choices suited each one's self-interest.  Nothing can dictate in advance what all these separate choices to be.  I think Hayek is the one who best explained the dynamics of this in The Road to Serfdom.

Finally, the best foundation for understanding what is correct in the ideas expressed by classical liberals like Burke and Hayek and so on is to study Miss Rand's philosophy of Objectivism.  She retrieved philosophy from the obscurantists of the 20th century and boiled it down into a true science of knowledge.  I'll leave it to others in this forum who are more knowledgeable than I am to make reading recommendations on Objectivism.

Andy


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