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Post 0

Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 1:35pmSanction this postReply
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Doesn't anyone wonder how certain individuals on this board, who acknowledge that they are quite young, find time to post message after message throughout the day? Are they self employed? Do they work at night? Are they independently wealthy? How do they make a living? Are they stealing time from their employers? Huh?

Post 1

Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 3:49pmSanction this postReply
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Sam:
If you're refering to specific persons, just speak up. Cutesy "inuendos" are not only innapropriate for an "up-front" philosophy such as Objectivism, but they also tell us absolutely nothing about what you're trying to say.
If you are attempting to insinuate something, then just come out and ask. Moreover, if you are reffering to whom I THINK you are reffering, then there might be a little bit of 'background' behind it, no?
(remember, Sam: you sent ME what you sent me, on the condition that I told you my thoughts.)

I didn't realise that Mr. Paul Hibbert was self-proclaimed 'posting policeman' of the board. Don't you have anything better to do, than to make innuendos about others (and attempt to back them up by ageist rhetoric?)
Pitiful.

Post 2

Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 3:53pmSanction this postReply
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Sam:
Let me give you some possible answers:
"Self-employed?" More power to them if they are.
"posts throug-out the day": what about such things as insomnia, or the idea that some people might not actually SQUANDER large amounts of their day watching TV (like others?)
Also, what of part-time employment, or full-time employment with VARIABLE shifts? Before you attempt to insinuate something, you should actually KNOW what you're talking about, first.

Now, I ask straight out: WHO are you indicting, and FOR WHAT? Come out with it, already.

Post 3

Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 4:27pmSanction this postReply
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What I am indicting is that this board has become a mere chat room with three or four posters trading insults and congratulations among themselves every 10 minutes. Why not do this off-board? I'm not insinuating anything. Why are you so sensitive to the question? Don't you think it's a natural thing to ponder?

The board doesn't have an "Ignore" feature for certain posters as some active boards have and the sender is just "Admin@SoloHQ.com" so it's difficult to screen out the baffle-gab.

I'm not going to contribute further to all the extraneous fluff floating around. If you want to take issue with me then email me.

Post 4

Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 5:13pmSanction this postReply
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"What I am indicting is that this board has become a mere chat room with three or four posters trading insults and congratulations among themselves every 10 minutes. Why not do this off-board? I'm not insinuating anything. Why are you so sensitive to the question? Don't you think it's a natural thing to ponder?"

No, actually I do not. The mere fact that a few of us actually PARTICIPATE in discussions, should not (and does not) indicate anything about our 'personal lives'. Moreover, the (implicit) claim that because some of us post at what YOU may consider "unorthodox" times (as if you are in a position to know what is a 'legitimate' time to post!!!) indicates that we are either slackers, losers, or somehow otherwise "not as Objectivist as YOU!", is just pathetic. Get over yourself, Paul. Nobody is stopping ANYONE ELSE from posting to any thread they choose. if you have something to say, then by damn, SAY IT -- don't just try to start 'controversy' by making cracks about how us "young'uns" are posting at the 'wrong' time of day.

"The board doesn't have an "Ignore" feature for certain posters as some active boards have and the sender is just "Admin@SoloHQ.com" so it's difficult to screen out the baffle-gab."

And why (pray tell) SHOULD it have an "ignore feature?" What exactly is so damnably difficult in -- oh let's see -- SCROLLING PAST portions of threads which don't involve you? I do it all the time (as evidence, refer to that godawful waste of time between Vertigo and Bernard, over the linguistic merits of the word 'lighted'.)

"I'm not going to contribute further to all the extraneous fluff floating around. If you want to take issue with me then email me."

OH, so NOW we get to the meat of the issue! Mr. Paul Hibbert doesn't think some things SHOULD be discussed. And just pray tell what subjects/ideas are 'ideologically permissible" in your fun little dream world, Mr. Hibbert? (As a side-note, I may find some of the things that go on here stupid or pointless, but I have NEVER ONCE ansked that they be censored for my own comfort.)

Mr. Hibbert: Age-ism is stupid. You seem to (mistakenly) believe that 'age grants wisdom'. If this discussion is any indication, then NO it does not. Exactly how OLD 'should' we be before YOU will 'accept' us?
Moreover, if you just come out and tell us when is the 'appropriate' time of day for us "young'uns" to post, then we might gladly oblige (bowing as we will to your obviously superior wisdom, and all.)

Bottom line: if anybody wants to post to a thread, then POST! don't start another thread with the sole purpose of BITCHING about how some "young'uns" MONOPOLIZE the board.
At least WE are CONTRIBUTING, Mr. Hibbert.
What's YOUR story?

(And if you MUST know: I AM 'self-employed' simultaneously writing a book, AND as a professional musician/mixdown tech. I'm going to be starting another project tomorrow, if you must know. Sorry some of us don't have "predictable" working hours. I didn't know that was a crime.)

Post 5

Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 5:28pmSanction this postReply
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By the way:
I don't know if anybody else realized it, but Mr. Hibbert seems to imply that there is a "maximum number of posts" that 'should' be "allowed" on the board, from any one poster, in any one day.
(censorship quotas, anyone?) I didn't think Objectivists subscribed to the theory that there was "only so much" to go around, and that things need be 'redistributed' to make it all 'fair'.

Post 6

Friday, January 23, 2004 - 5:21amSanction this postReply
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I have to agree that ignore functions are always useful, especially on boards full of trolls. But I do say, this Hibbert fellow is quite untowards, eh ?

Post 7

Friday, January 23, 2004 - 6:56amSanction this postReply
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So very true. Now if he wanted to actually CONTRIBUTE to the discussions (say, by posting, and throwing his 'two cents in' (as opposed to COMPLAINING about it, while doing nothing), he'd maybe be happier.
But then again, maybe not. Some people just seem to need to manufacture problems.

Post 8

Friday, January 23, 2004 - 11:46amSanction this postReply
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I think SamErica feels that an Objectivist board is a place for Objectivist discussion, and other discussions are out-of-place in such an environment. I don't think SOLO is such a forum, however. Here are my reasons:

These are public forums, and anybody can post without registering, etc. They simply click reply or new thread and write one. SamErica mentioned there is no ignore function. You can't have an ignore function unless you require people to register. Otherwise, people will just modify their name if they want yuo to see, like vertig0 or such.

These forums typically have a public purpose. The message of SOLO seems to be to be an example to people about how to live rationally and to point out the contradictions and folly in religion, etc. It says on this site 'it is battle for people's minds'. In this regard, certainly you need people who aren't Objectivists to participate, otherwise you become an elite club. Since non-objectivists participate, you are likely to get debates and arguments that seem stupid. The overall qualitative value of the posts and threads are less, but this does not in any way mean serious Objectivist discussions can't still take place between Objectivists. This is the perfect place for it, where non-Objectivists can see the debate aswell.

Disagreement is natural, and shows people are willing to test their beliefs. This is infinitely more important than being scared to post in case you get shouted at, or feeling it is pointless to intervene, because such people are so useless. If they are purposefully looking for a fight, though, I understand. SamErica, I am not moaning at you now, you were willing to talk to me even when I said things which were unsubstantiated.

As for the 'young'uns' comment, young people tend to be more self-assured, and more willing to challenge an opinion. This results in more meaningful discussion.

Life is not one-dimensional, and it is always good to be afforded the oportunity of defending your standpoint. It puts into perspective why you believe it. If we all agreed on everything, we would have no need to question what we believe.

SamErica, if I or anyone say something you feel is not appropriate for this board, please say so, don't sit on it. By not saying it you imply, however incorrectly, that you somehow want to avoid confrontation.

Some of us are perhaps overly frantic defending our position, like some posts of mine, Francois's and Henry's, but unfortunately we don't have the benefit of decades of life experience as you yourself do. Since you don't have need to discuss topics you have already pondered, we are left to discuss them. Sorry if it annoys you, seems pedantic, or is potentially off-topic.

These forums are probably near the best on the net as regards to having intelligent and controlled participants. Therefore, it is a good place for intelligent discussion that might not fit under the Objectivist banner.

I speak only for myself, please don't view this as me 'telling how it is'.

As for swapping compliments, I think Henry understands me pretty well, and this is evidenced by how he is responding to my posts lately. Actually, I have only given one compliment, saying I think he understands me. I don't know exactly why he is so free with compliments, but I am proud enough to accept them.

Post 9

Friday, January 23, 2004 - 6:51pmSanction this postReply
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Vertigo:
I'm "free with compliments", specifically because of your own approach to discussion: you are a highly sincere, and very thoughtful person, who is always willing to think through his own viewpoints. The world desperately needs more people who approach life in that manner.

If Sam Erica feels that some of us post "too often" or at the "wrong time of day", then -- to my limited and shallow view of things, at any rate -- I think he should just come right out, and impart some of his wisdom. Tell us WHEN, and HOW OFTEN we are to be 'permitted' to post. (Wouldn't want to take the chance of having a discussion HE doesn't approve of, now would we?) :)

Post 10

Monday, January 26, 2004 - 7:42pmSanction this postReply
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Henry said: "I don't know if anybody else realized it, but Mr. Hibbert seems to imply that there is a "maximum number of posts" that 'should' be "allowed" on the board, from any one poster, in any one day.
(censorship quotas, anyone?)".

Nice one. Right out of the old Marxist handbook.

I suggest you learn what censorship is before you start throwing the word around.

And as for limited posts a day, other boards do it to raise the level of intelligence of the posts. You don't have people throwing in every random statement that runs through their head.

Post 11

Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 3:02pmSanction this postReply
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"Nice one. Right out of the old Marxist handbook."

Wow. Now even the admin is calling people Marxists. Wonderful board you guys have here.

Post 12

Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 3:58pmSanction this postReply
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Francois, who called anyone a Marxist? I said that tired old argument is popular among marxists. It was. They demanded people give them a forum for their views, and if those people didn't, they screamed censorship. They rejected property rights. They claimed their "freedom of speech" meant that others must pay to have the marxists views heard.

You should really learn a little about property rights.

Post 13

Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 3:57pmSanction this postReply
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I should learn a little about property rights ! When did I claim that free speech overrides property rights ? Joe, where the fuck can you quote me saying that ? That doesn't even make any sense.

Anyway, I don't care about your rationalization, so spare me your fucking posturing. If you and your clique want to hide behind the cloak of board ownership to protect your anti-discussion attitude, do that. But I know and you know very well that you're evading responsibility for your actions. Period. Beyond that, do whatever you want, I don't give a flying fuck.

Post 14

Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 4:06pmSanction this postReply
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You're funny Francois.

"Anti-discussion attitude". Oh yeah. Not being interested in stupid topics must mean that I'm anti-discussion. You're pathetic. And how have I used board ownership? Haven't you at least noticed that you are still able to make these stupid posts?

Your blind loyalty to everything Henry says is the only signs of a clique here.

And I'll assume, from you lack of comment, that you agree that Henry's statement was a classic marxist line. No need to respond.

Post 15

Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 5:39pmSanction this postReply
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Rowlands:
What exactly was so "stupid" about the subject, other than the fact that YOU didn't like it? I realize I'm a moron and all, but I hadn't realized you're viewpoints, and chosen prejudices, were the end-all indicator of what topics were "worth" discussing.

The fact remains (even though you still seem to want to ignore it), that WE did not go into a conversation, specifically to pester the participants about how much "bollocks" it was -- that noble and enlightening task was left squarely for you wonderful LEADER-types to do. You've managed to sidestep that point every time you post.
Fine. You don't exert OVERT ideological control. But the fact remains that you DO feel inordinately free to react with scorn, contempt, and weird comparisons to cults, if somebody happens to stray into discussion territory YOU 'don't consider relevant'.

Snotty-ass cracks about how it was a "robot's rights" thread, or how it indicated that we don't give a fuck about philosophy, or were into "mental masturbation" just don't make for good interchange, and if that is how you're going to use your position as "leader", then by all means continue your little cult here. We wouldn't want to spoil it by discussing things you didn't "approve" of, now would we?

Post 16

Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 5:43pmSanction this postReply
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"But the fact remains that you DO feel inordinately free to react with scorn, contempt, and weird comparisons to cults, if somebody happens to stray into discussion territory YOU 'don't consider relevant'."

I see. But I'm a little confused. Are you talking about yourself? If so, I couldn't agree more.

Post 17

Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 7:08amSanction this postReply
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That's cute, Joe. Really funny and ironic. Was that what you were going for, or was it totally inadvertent?

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