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Post 40

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 7:07pmSanction this postReply
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What’s your point?

I thought I'd made it clear. Your criticism of the mother is dependent on the actions of the thief, molester, gunman, etc., not on the actions of the mother.

That's my point. 

Maybe you'll feel better if I tell you I agree with you, locking the car door would have been a better choice.  I'd bet money that the mother in question would agree with you too.  



Post 41

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 8:10pmSanction this postReply
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Robert,

What do you mean by “Perhaps the blessing ye not a parent.....”?

(Both Teresa and I are parents.)

I usually appreciate your points, so I’d like to understand this one.


Post 42

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 9:21pmSanction this postReply
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I misunderstood - knew Teresa was a parent, but not you....

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Post 43

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 9:44pmSanction this postReply
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In that case, Robert, why don’t you go wander around, find some other thread, READ it, and throw bombs there instead?

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Post 44

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 9:45pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa,

You wrote, “the only reason you're even able to criticise the former is because the car was stolen.”

This is not true. As I wrote to Jeffery, I’ve been thinking about this stuff for years. Prior to this news event, if you had asked me my thoughts on leaving a child in a running, unlocked car to run into the house, I would have said it was a bad idea because some fifteen-year-old will walk by and joyride the car. You don’t have to believe that, but it’s true.

You also wrote, “Your criticism of the mother is dependent on the actions of the thief, molester, gunman, etc., not on the actions of the mother.”

Yes, dependent in that without the criminal, nothing would have gone wrong in this case. But no, not dependent in the sense that I got the idea that it’s a bad idea from reading this news story. Rather, I got the idea that it’s a bad idea by thinking about it many, many times over the years.

Teresa, you seem to be hung-up on the thought that any criticism of her actions serves to lessen the thief’s criminal blame or to create some for her. I don’t believe that at all. Let me be perfectly clear. ALL of the criminal blame for what happened goes to the thief and her laxity should never be allowed as a defense at his trial.

I am interested in the issue of making good choices and flourishing. We don’t have the option of flourishing in a world without criminals—we’re stuck with struggling to flourish in this world, which includes bad people who will hurt us if they can. That we must sometimes modify our behavior in order to proof ourselves against those bad people certainly sucks, but in the interest of flourishing and not becoming their prey, we nevertheless should so modify our behavior.

Convenience might suggest that a woman put her purse down while she shops. Her decision not to do so because someone might steal it is no admission on her part that a thief would be right to steal it, or that she would be directly to blame should it get stolen. Rather, her decision not do so is a simple act of prudence, born of a desire to remain in custody of her purse. If she puts it down, and it gets stolen, and Jon criticizes her choice, then you really can’t say that Jon’s criticism is dependent on the theft actually occurring. Rather, the criticism is quite reality-based, and it is a valid criticism prior to, and even in the absence of, the purses’ eventual disappearance.


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Post 45

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 9:56pmSanction this postReply
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And Jon I definitely agree that criticism can help us protect ourselves in our own lives. I would prefer the criticism to be of a constructive nature and not employ the use of force against someone not acting optimally to safeguard themselves from criminal threats as we both seem to agree. I really feel bad for this mother and she must be so relieved the outcome wasn't worse, I think she learned a valuable lesson and a law on the book wasn't needed to convey it. As if the horror of having her child missing for a couple hours worrying the worst had happened wasn't enough for this mother to take better care in the future. I am in the process of getting a gun to protect myself should I fall victim to a criminal's acts. (Anyone attempting to break into my house will become a corpse) but I don't think lowly of other people who choose not to safeguard themselves in that way. What works for me may not be what others consider would work for them. I also think everyone (except criminals of course) should carry concealed firearms, but most people disagree with me and many states do as well.

Post 46

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 10:21pmSanction this postReply
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John,

Total agreement.


Post 47

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 6:03pmSanction this postReply
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~ I asked 3 questions in my post #26.
~ The 1st has been danced around quite a bit, but really, totally ignored.
~ The 2nd, well, even more so.
~ The 3rd has been commented on only in terms of my using the concept 'Nanny State.'
     All comments since are about whether or not the mother is properly 'criticizable' with additional challenges about the criticizability of analogous or more extreme scenarios hypothesized.

     Lemme re-phrase: should DCYS have intervened or not? If so, are the thieves relevent [heh; unless 'they' reported what she did  :))  ] ? --- Further, should she have gone to jail or not?

LLAP
J:D


Post 48

Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 9:32pmSanction this postReply
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John, can you provide a lot more specific facts than the ones available to us? Otherwise, comment has to remain academic.

Ted

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