RoR: Forum

The author has the courage to defy political correctness? That's good for laughs. He's correctly parroting the politically approved lines of the neo-conservatives, namely that Moslems are mostly violent, lazy, and bent on world conquest; in stark contrast to Christians, who seek only peace, freedom, and the betterment of mankind. That any intelligent person could applaud such shrill stupid propaganda, and then claim to uphold individualism, astonishes me.

Post 1

Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:26pm

I wasn't aware that Political Correctness was a characteristic of the Right.

LLAP
J:D

Post 2

Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:33pm

In the sense of 'traditionalism' and 'the status quo', a case could be made...

Post 3

Monday, November 14, 2005 - 3:14pm

When the right dominates the political system, of course "political correctness" is a characteristic of the right. For the last four years, nothing has been more politically correct than national collectivist warmongering.

Post 4

Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:26pm

AG,
I gotta give you credit for one thing... you're consistent -- in the same sense an advocate of the coherence theory of truth is.

Jeff

Post 5

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 6:43pm

That any intelligent person could applaud such shrill stupid propaganda, and then claim to uphold individualism, astonishes me.

He had a rather crude way of putting things, but what did he actually say about Islam that's far from the truth, and why?

Here's something that Ayatollah Khomeini said about it:

�Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]�. Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur�anic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.�

Post 6

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 7:29pm

Richard,
Interesting quote. Do you have a source?

Post 7

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:31pm

I googled: "Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword"

The first site is:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15983

Which includes this:

"As Khomeini himself put it: �Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world....But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world.�

The goal of this conquest would be to establish the hegemony of Islamic law. As Khomeini put it: �What is the good of us [i.e., the mullahs] asking for the hand of a thief to be severed or an adulteress to be stoned to death when all we can do is recommend such punishments, having no power to implement them?�"

Looking at the other sites which also include the original quote I conclude that whether it's authentic or not, it is much quoted.

Post 8

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 8:54pm

The current edition of Vanity Fair has a troubling article about Armageddomaniacs: "American Rapture," written by Craig Unger.

I kind of like one theme in the Chronwatch article by Burt Prelutsky (lacking in the the recent spate of "EVIIIIL Islam" screeds) -- the idea that "testosterone-driven young males enjoy busting windows, spray-painting graffiti, and starting fires," and "[t]he answer, nearly always, to why young people riot is simple. It�s fun."

But the article veered off into "I HATE ISLAM! AND I AM BEYOND REASON!" for me. In a small sense, this is the kind of cheerily factless rant that adds to the ick factor of quasi-Objectivism. All I can think is "Oi, I'm glad you don't run my town, Burt, you fucking maniac. Please stop screaming about Islam, you is scaring the chi'drun."

The rest of Prelutsky's oeuvre and that of his fellow Chronwatcher's is occasionally wince-worthy:

- "Got That 'Ooo La La, Intifada' Feeling?" by Steven Plaut ('why, yes, Steven, I do: death toll from the Intifada: +/- 4300 [BBC]; death toll in Ooo La La: +/- 3 [The Age])
- "Judge Alito May Save American Civilization," by James Atticus Bowden (mmm-hmmm, or, as you suggest, ONWARD JUDEO-CHRISTIAN SO-OLDIERS!)
- "The Murder of Terri Schiavo," by Burt Prelutsky (right, Burt, about as much murder as withdrawing nutrients from zucchini)

-- in fairness, much of the Chronwatch is funny, sharp, and boisterously critical)

With regard to Richard Wiig's quote from the demented and thankfully dead arch-mullah of our nightmares, how's about the gloss below?

(I mean to ask if one should judge and condemn *Christianity*, all Christianity, by quoting the most demented theocratic nutbars of them all? -- Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Tim LaHaye? And who is it that buys all the crappy and horrifying Rapture books in America? What is the scope of difference between the demented initifadamullahs and the demented armageddamullahs, anyhow? One side sells 80 million blood-soaked fantasies, the other only 60)

_______________

Could Tim LaHaye (or his ghostwriter) top Khomeini?:

"Those who know nothing of the Rapture pretend that
Christianity counsels against war. Those [who say this]
are witless. Revelation says: The Armies of the Lord
will all the ungodly just as they would kill you all!
Does this mean that Christians should sit back until
they are devoured by [the ungodly]? Lord Christ of the
Rapture says: Kill them, put them to the sword and
scatter [their armies]�. Christianity says: Whatever
good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the
shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient
except with the sword! The sword is the key to the
Rapture, which can be opened only for the Born Again!
There are hundreds of other [Bible] psalms and LaHayediths
[sayings of the Armageddon] urging Christians to value war
and to fight. Does all this mean that Christianity is a
religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon
those foolish souls who make such a claim."

Whoo-hoo! Islam is the religion of death. They's all the same! Raarghhh! Kill 'em all! Whoo-hoo! Meet you at Arby's for a decaf when all the blood drains away . . .

WSS

Post 9

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 9:09pm

What? you don't care for the roast beef anymore?

Post 10

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 11:04pm

Arby's sells roast beef?

Shucks.

Just kidding. I don't know where the Arby's reference hopped out from. Must be a reflection of my finest values.

Actually, before I face the ARI firing squad for crimes against anti-muslim monomania . . . I would ask for a Montreal-style smoked meat sandwich. Arby's offerings always struck me as the kind of place Barbie would eat at if she were six feet five.

Anyhow, have you ever looked in an Arby's kitchen? It resembles a surgical suite. What is wrong with the stuff in the vats that they have to wear face-masks and booties? What's with the steamhoses and the things that look like life-support, and the hoses? Yikes.

Seriously, I don't understand why some 'right'-ish Americans get all bent out of shape against Islam qua Islam (as opposed to a more clearly defined radical subset of jihadi dementia). Some a these folk is in bed with the scariest fucking dementos on the continent.

Yes, jihadis frighten me, and they frighten me much more than the cartoonish rants noted in my three recent posts . . .

. . . but, heck, Robert, do you ever wonder why supposedly anti-fascist proto-objectivists in the 'right' don't get more alarmed than they do at the hot fundamentalist breath on their neck? Wouldn't you stop and check the premises and say to yourself, "Hey! I'm giving the same anti-Muslim rant as the 700 Club. I sound like Jerry Fucking Falwell's evil twin. Ooops."

Anyways, read the Vanity Fair article (hold your nose at the Ur-liberal horror of the rest of the mag) -- see if you are not creeped out -- a 'War on Islam' becomes part of the glorious march to End of Days and the Rapture.

Armageddon! Yee-haw!

WSS

Post 11

Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 11:18pm

Sorry Jeff, I don't have a source, but I can try and track its origin down. I got it from here, question 10:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/006297.php

But really, whether this quote is correct (and my gut feeling says it is) or not, matters little. In the face of the indicting evidence from the Koran, Hadith and Sunnah, you don't need quotes from Islamic dictators to come to the conclusion that Islam is a culture of death with world subjugation on its mind.

Post 12

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 12:46am

I have tracked it so far, to this book, so perhaps if you could get your hands on a copy you'd find the source in the notes:

"The Khomeini quote appears in Amir Taheri's book Holy Terror: Inside the World of Islamic Terrorism. Hope this helps in some way...."
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0917561457/103-1847367-0955048

Post 13

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 12:53am

I read the article once more (and the posted objections). I stand by the gutsy anti-PC rejection of the "Islam is a religion of peace" myth.

Islam, in stark contrast to Christianity, did not have a Renaissance, Reformation, or Enlightenment.

Born in violence, spread through violence, it remains one of the biggest threats to Western Civilization.

*Where are the peace-loving Palestianians?
*Where are the loyal Muslim Americans?
*Where are the reformers in Syria?
*Where in Islam do we find a commitment to individual rights?

I fear that some Solo members are engaged in a form of wishful thinking facilitated by "pure reason," that is, abstractions devoid of particular facts.

The sad fact is that so many peace-loving people refused to see the dangers of Nazism even after Germany's military buildup, its Nuremberg laws, and annexations. Same for the Soviet menace.

I would rather risk being called a "national collectivist warmongerer" and an "Armageddomaniac," than bury my head in the sands of PC fantasy. And I wish the Neville Chamberlain's of the world had the courage to "see it like it is."

Post 14

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 1:57am

The Neville Chamberlains of the world do see it like it is, Marty. What they lack in courage they make up for in treachery. They are not innocent. Keep up the good fight!

Linz

Post 15

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 3:01am

The sad fact is that so many peace-loving people refused to see the dangers of Nazism even after Germany's military buildup, its Nuremberg laws, and annexations. Same for the Soviet menace.

And this is more dangerous than the nazis. The Jihadists with their bombs are visible for what they are, but the ongoing encroachment of Islam through peaceful means is not. The majority of muslims in the west might be peaceful (for now - if you ignore the rioting in France), but they are working towards exactly the same ends that the violent Jihadists are working towards only by different means.

Have a read of this. It is written before the French riots. You'll have to scroll up to get to the start of the article:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008928.php#comments

(Edited by Richard Wiig on 11/17, 3:04am)

Post 16

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 7:35am

Marty Lewinter writes:

*Where are the peace-loving Palestians?

In Israel/Palestine -- in people like Riad Malki. One could argue also that PA President Abbas counsels non-violence and peaceful negotiations. In reality, if you look you can find a lively bunch of Palestinian peace activists, scholars, teachers and members of the media -- have a look at the efforts of the Palestian-led Panorama Center, and the group Palestinians for Peace Now.

*Where are the loyal Muslim Americans?

If you mean 'loyal to the US, its values and institutions,' like Nidal M. Ibrahim, or the founders of "Muslims for Bush" -- here and there. I'd expect to find them where Arab/Muslim numbers are large, in Michigan and Southern California.

*Where are the reformers in Syria?

If not in detention in Syria -- then you will likely find them in Lebanon, or in other exiles -- and probably a fair number are found in the Reform Party of Syria, underground or attempting, against repression, to reform the Ba'ath party from within (though I believe that is not possible). I suggest Ayman Abdel Nour and his oft-banned blog (see also this Wapo article for a brief overview of Nour).

*Where in Islam do we find a commitment to individual rights?

Probably in the Palestinian 'civil society' movement (see especially this link), and in the nascent Arab Reform movement. In Lebanon. In the Turkish reform movement. And so on.

I would rather risk being called a "national collectivist warmongerer" and an "Armageddomaniac,"

Unless you demonstrate a thoroughgoing willingness to embrace the Rapture, Tim LaHaye's philosophy and the religious nutbars profiled in the Vanity Fair article cited above, I would never call you an "Armageddomaniac."

WSS

Post 17

Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 10:30am