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Saturday, September 3, 2005 - 6:55pmSanction this postReply
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I'm getting damned tired of such broken-record phrases as this:

 to National Guard combat brigades unavailable to enforce law and order in America—because they were sent in the name of sacrifice to Iraq
So we should never commit troops and engage in a war or conflict due to the off chance that a once-a-century-or-so natural disaster might occur?  Agree or disagree with the war in Iraq or with Bush, this type of sentiment is rubbish.  I'm sick and tired of people acting as if this would not be such a mess if Bush had just had the foresight to keep the military at home in case New Orleans won the nature-induced-abomination lottery.  Bring the troops home and have them shoot at clouds!

Bob-This is not an attack on you.  I enjoyed and appreciate the article with the exception of this one comment.  Said comment, which I have heard over and over, just put me at a point where I had to release some steam.




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Saturday, September 3, 2005 - 7:19pmSanction this postReply
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"I'm sick and tired of people acting as if this would not be such a mess if Bush had just had the foresight to keep the military at home in case New Orleans won the nature-induced-abomination lottery."

Well, sick and tired you may well be, but the fact is that this would *not* be such a mess if Bush had just had the sense to keep the military at home becsuse there was no legitimate use for them anywhere else.

JR



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Saturday, September 3, 2005 - 7:50pmSanction this postReply
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Okay Jeff.  You explain to me how things would be different if Iraq was and always had been a desert oasis and the troops were still here in the states.  Come on blame-the-federal-government Jeff and tell me.
(Edited by Jody Allen Gomez on 9/03, 8:43pm)




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Saturday, September 3, 2005 - 10:57pmSanction this postReply
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There'd been a few more LA Nat'l Grd troops. That's all I can think of. Small difference. You gotta take care of yourself; not rely on the government.

--Brant




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Sunday, September 4, 2005 - 3:57amSanction this postReply
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Jody Allen Gomez wrote: "So we should never commit troops and engage in a war or conflict due to the off chance that a once-a-century-or-so natural disaster might occur?"
In another thread on this topic, I pointed out that the cycle of violent hurricanes in the Gulf and the Atlantic is remarkably regular - about 24 years - having been tracked since the founding of European settlements. Some private relief organizations were well prepared for this year's onslaught and were already in place in N.O. with meals and emergency equipment prior to recent events.

Also, if the President of the United States had an IQ into the three-digit range, it might make a difference.  You do realize that "W" is only a place-holder for his father's interests and the interests behind and allied with those?  So, we have a committee running the federal goverment.  Reality is not to be evaded.  In other thread on this, I cited a Chicago Times article stating that the head of FEMA came there from the Arabian Horse Association.  I add to that that Nicholas Brady had been a stableboy for C. Douglas DIllon and Brady developed a database for Arabian studs before becoming Secretary of the Treasury. This Arabian Horse thing is not trivia, apparently.

I am not a believer in strong government, of course, but the functions that it does serve, it must serve well. 

The metaphysical and epistemological  problems in New Orleans are old and deep.




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Sunday, September 4, 2005 - 8:55amSanction this postReply
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     I'll agree that Bush blew it re not insuring that FEMA was better prepared for it's...ostensible...purpose. As far as I'm concerned, given that FEMA is a fed dept. (proper or improper), it should have shown it's expected use a bit more efficiently, given how long it's been around. --- Indeed, the head of FEMA is the one to look at there, before Bush.

     The really bad thing about Bush is that he was so ill-planned for the Iraq War (whether THAT was proper to start or not is irrelevent here) that he needed to 'draft' varied states' National Guards for it (or maybe worse: He planned, before entering Iraq, on the possibility/likelihood OF using them?) Such drafting exacerbated the whole hurricane-disaster problem.

     However, but for the latter, Bush is the LAST one in the 'Blame-Chain,' even with his earlier funds-cutting of disaster-relief. --- Interestingly, though 'questions' are pointed out for dept. and organisations re 'blame,' no persons are pointed to...yet...re such except Bush. Wonder why that is?

     1st in line should be all those who chose to move into such a locale, disregarding their awareness of the possibilities re hurricane-disasters in the gulf. Some possibilities were historically-established.  I was in Biloxi (aka Keesler AFB) when a hurricane hit in the late 60's, and I saw what one could do to the whole coast (never mind Biloxi) up to 'the Big Easy': homes and malls on the 'land-side' of the coastal highway, strip-bars (now, casinos) on the 'beach-side' leveled. And that wasn't an F4. --- Clearly, no one's learned yet to not build a beach front community along that highway through Gulfport, nor have they yet learned to prepare for the obvious. (But then, the same could be said for those living over the San Andreas.) Other possibilities were 'hypothetical,' though one no longer is: New Orleans getting drowned (makes me think of Pompeii.)

    2nd in line should be all those raised therein (and, I quite understand not wanting to 'leave one's home' due to nostalgia, 'roots,' etc.) who believed that they have/had no responsibility for being involved politically or privately-communitarily re local actions for at-least-the-known disaster preparedness, but instead, that ONLY govt-authorities (local, state, fed) have such 'responsibilities'. --- Methinks this belief is held by most of those raised therein, mainly because, like the 'good' Muslims who disagree with Bin Laden, I've heard nothing from, or even about, those others who believed differently and who must thereby be a very small minority.

     3rd in line should be all those in local and state decision-authority positions who were aware of the above 'possibilities,' whether or not they were 'prodded' by those governed to do anything, and put such concerns on a low-priority, expecting the fed-level to efficiently take care of things WHILE having little/no complaints about their state's National Guard getting drafted for functions it was really never trained for beyond CONUS invasion.

     The latter especially applies to the New Orleans situation. While the mayor is complaining about the inefficiency of FEMA, what has he (or any past mayor) shown re preparation (beyond waiting for more tax-teat funds from Mommy's IRS) for his city's basin filling up? The present mayor showed that his lack of evacuation preparations left (among other things) more than 100 of local school-buses parked in a now brand-new lake, rather than being used when clear, dire, warnings were 1st being issued. Further, I've caught nothing re what Louisiana's governor has to say, beyond also complaining about FEMA (ergo, Bush.) --- You'd think that these decision-makers would have taken a hint when the Astrodome was specifically built to deal with an F4 hurricane blast. (And, I'd say the building held up, leaks or not, unlike the local/state authorities' preparation for using it.)

     After discussing all those above, one can talk about Fema.

     Then, and only then, after all the above people, is it time to talk about Bush (apart from drafting the National Guard, which exacerbated the problem, and created/showed new constitutional ones.)

     "The buck stops here" is appropriate to apply to Bush, one way or the other, true.

     But, where did the buck START moving from? That's the place to START the 'blame-game' and continue the finger-pointing at all places the buck passes through, before jumping to it's supposed terminus.

     Too many people want to live at the bottom of Vesuvius, and stupidly expect accountability/responsibility/blameworthiness to apply ONLY to the executive leader.


     I wonder how long the San Andreas is going to keep...hanging in there?

LLAP
J-D


(Edited by John Dailey on 9/04, 9:03am)

(Edited by John Dailey on 9/04, 10:07am)




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Sunday, September 4, 2005 - 7:52pmSanction this postReply
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I don't follow your point about the National Guard.  Not trained to do what?  The problem in N.O. has nothing to do with Iraq.  There seems to be several misconceptions floating around about what the Guard is for.

Generally I agree with you "order of blame".  See the posted Tracinski (sic?) article, he has it right re the real story here.




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Sunday, September 4, 2005 - 7:57pmSanction this postReply
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I was referin to Mr. Dailey's point about the Guard...

Re the original article:  The N.O. situation has me thinking of a different train scene than the one mentioned in the article - the wreck in the mountain where no one on the train could make the personal connections to how their denials of reality were part of a chaos theory connetion to their wreck...as per Mr.Daileys point about who to blame:  who would choose to live in N.O.?...even without the hurrican potential the town was disgusting




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