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Post 0

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:07pmSanction this postReply
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~ He's THE MAN!

~ Worked through the 1st 5 seasons, DVD-wise. Can't recall when I've been so caught up in a TV-series. Absolutely GREAT screen-writers here, and the casting and acting! Whoa-h.

~ Don't think I'll be catching this season 'till DVD time, but, had taped Sunday's (and tonight, Monday's) special presentations for the season. Wow. He got a taste of his own 'torture' medicine on Sunday. He also can get really 'Primal' when it comes to survival (ripping out a throat with his teeth? How 'tough' can a civilized person get?)

~ Now, what city will become radioactive?

LLAP
J:D


Post 1

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 1:54pmSanction this postReply
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John: I totally agree. I'm also going to wait for the DVD series. This is the very best of TV drama.

Sam


Post 2

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 4:55pmSanction this postReply
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"24" is the best drama on TV.

My most recent comment about the series is here, with embedded links to past, more extensive comments as well.

If this country had 10 Jack Bauers in the federal government, we would no longer have a threat from Islamic fascists.

Post 3

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 5:43pmSanction this postReply
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I we had 10 Jack's, hell jaywalkers won't be safe.

Post 4

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 6:41pmSanction this postReply
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24 is yet another case of where the main character is played by someone that shares nearly none of the same characteristics.

There is nothing actually wrong with this: actors are entitled to their own opinion (Watch Team America). It's just interesting when it happens.

Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather, Tommy Douglas was the government healthcare system icon in Canada in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. And, Kiefer Sutherland can be seen here introducing a video version the Douglas parable, "Mouseland".

Enjoy!

And who knows, maybe Kiefer Sutherland's have changed since September 11th.

PS- The spellchecker thinks I misspelt "America"


Post 5

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 8:36pmSanction this postReply
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PS- The spellchecker thinks I misspelt "America"

lol - ye mean it's asking for a 'k'?????


Post 6

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 9:22pmSanction this postReply
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     Hey, as long as we're not talking 3 k's, let it go. (You know: AmeriKKKa.) Hard to do here with an Afro-American prez, of course, ergo...

     Interesting that no fan (including moi, mea culpa) has yet dealt with the 'fact' that Jack really, occasionally operates 'outside "The Law"' (making his own); ie, non-fans have clearly labeled him a 'fascist,' but, is he? Or, is he not? If not, how can he be granted as having moral justification for 'operating OUTSIDE the (can one say Constitution?) rules'? Food-for-thought, methinks. ---  (Maybe, such is...occasionally necessary...like, oh, 'martial law', hmmm?)

LLAP
J:D


Post 7

Monday, January 15, 2007 - 10:36pmSanction this postReply
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I'd like to be able to watch this series. Having been traumatized by 9-11 and my lover's murder, I find any TV violence difficult. What little I have been able to watch that has been tolerable was very interesting. House is more fitting to my temperament. Perhaps in a few more years.

Post 8

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 2:44amSanction this postReply
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Jon, good point about Jack Bauer operating "outside" the law -- when dealing with the heinous. Wrestle with demons become one, huh?

My big beef is with his recent, intended "sacrifice" of himself (because the terrorist demanded it) -- and his past "sacrifice" of his own boss (on president's orders -- again because terrorists were demanding it).

Any thoughts on that?

Ed


Post 9

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 5:40amSanction this postReply
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Charlie Rose interviewed Kiefer Sutherland mainly about 24 on Friday. It can be viewed here
http://www.charlierose.com/ for a couple more days. Be forewarned about KS's disgusting political views about 21 minutes in (socialist policies are common sense).


Post 10

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 6:28amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

Well what would you do? Over the past 5 seasons, the one undeniable fact about Jack is that he loves this country very much and he would do anything to protect it. I couldn’t imagine watching suicide bombings going off all over America and not doing whatever I could to stop it.

Besides, Jack made it very clear what he was dying for. He said the only reason he didn’t die in China was that he didn’t want to die for nothing. Now he got to die for something. Of course when he found out that it was all a trick well...Jack’s back.


Post 11

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:14amSanction this postReply
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Clarence,

Ed,

Well what would you do?
I'd write a story where innocents never "had to" die, but you likely knew that already -- so the question seems rhetorical ...

I couldn’t imagine watching suicide bombings going off all over America and not doing whatever I could to stop it.
I, too, would risk life and limb to have peace and freedom -- as life without these wouldn't be "worth it."

Besides, Jack made it very clear what he was dying for. He said the only reason he didn’t die in China was that he didn’t want to die for nothing. Now he got to die for something.
Okay, I agree. Dying for something is better than dying for nothing; but it pales in comparison to living for something.

Living (for something) is everything.

Ed


Post 12

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 8:21amSanction this postReply
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I'm sorry that I learned about Keifer's very socialist convictions. It will take something away from my perception of Jack Bauer's character.

Sam


Post 13

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 9:32amSanction this postReply
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From a dramatic standpoint, "24" poses real-world terrorist situations that occur in a constant "emergency" context. "We are running out of time!" is the show's cliche line, as the digital clock onscreen ticks down toward disaster.

The fact that these are ticking-bomb emergencies renders moot the conventional applications of rational self-interest ethics ("maximize long-term gain"). In an emergency situation, facing imminent disaster, you don't always have the luxury of "maximizing gain"; you are reduced to the more primitive self-defense premise of "minimizing loss."

Facing impending terrorist acts, as he is every week, counter-terrorist agent Bauer is necessarily thrust into primitive self-defense situations, where normal moral (and hence legal) principles simply do not apply. His job is to restore the normal moral-legal context, by eliminating those who pose a "clear and present danger" to America's survival.

Living in a constant emergency context, as the Jack Bauer character does, necessarily has terrible consequences on one's emotional life. Try to imagine yourself in that kind of a situation, and ask yourself what it would do to you.

But if you then ask yourself, as some Objectivists might, whether one "should" take on such a job -- whether it would amount to "self-sacrifice" -- well, ask yourself what would happen if NO ONE chose this thankless task of defending America against her enemies.

Somebody has to do it. Is that person an altruistic martyr? Or is he a hero of the principle of self-defense, during a time of chronic emergencies?

I think Jack Bauer represents a true hero of the self-defense premise. In emergencies, he does whatever he has to to protect his highest values -- which include his country, its freedom, and its national security.

Incidentally, fans of Jack Bauer will also LOVE the exploits of bestselling novelist Vince Flynn's counter-terrorist hero, Mitch Rapp. Start the series at its beginning, with Transfer of Power.

More on all this here.

Post 14

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 9:40amSanction this postReply
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Regarding Kiefer Sutherland's politics:

The logical requirements of portraying a ruthless counterterrorism agent fighting Islamist enemies renders Sutherland's politics moot. The show MUST take a hardline stand against them, and MUST have Jack Bauer remain an uncompromising tough guy. If Sutherland started to portray Jack Bauer as a kinder, gentler liberal schmoo, the entire show would collapse...and Sutherland knows it. I mean, what is Jack Bauer supposed to do? Advocate gun control and join the ACLU? Gimme a break!

The fact is that the very premise of the show necessitates a hardliner anti-Islamist stand, and a hardliner pro-American hero. Should "24" ever begin to compromise those core premises, or undermine the Bauer character's core Americanism, it will tank in the ratings. I don't think that's about to happen.

Incidentally, for the same reason, Angelina Jolie's politics don't matter with regard to the "Atlas Shrugged" film...unless they rewrite the script to undo Rand. My information suggests that, so far, screenwriter Randall Wallace seems to be trying to let Ayn Rand shine through, loud and clear. We'll see....

Post 15

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 1:55pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks for that insightful response, Robert. It's sometimes easy to lose context and run judgmentally-amok with a floating abstraction like "rational self-interest" but, without context, all meaning is lost. It's good to be clear regarding that aspect of reality.

Thanks for providing the needed clarity here.

;-)

Ed


Post 16

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 2:32pmSanction this postReply
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If a criticism of Kiefer Sutherland's politics is irrelevant to Jack Bauer and 24, then a defense/praise of Jack Bauer and 24 must be irrelevant to a criticism of Kiefer Sutherland's politics. :-)

(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 1/16, 2:54pm)


Post 17

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:03pmSanction this postReply
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Merlin:

     No argument! Absolutely correct! -- However, your point seems just as irrelevent to the point of this thread as your argument establishes re criticism of Kiefer-the-actor. Criticism (aka non-'praise/defense') of Kiefer's actual politics is 'logically' irrelevent to such re the character he presents as Jack Bauer. It IS, however, interestingly relevent to Bidinotto's points about an audience's keeping separate one's 'image' of an actor re their most noted character. I can't help thinking back to actors who portrayed Hitler and Jefferson. I doubt the actors' ethics/politics were synonomous with the character they portrayed, anymore than Katherine Hepburns' was when Rand considered her for Dagny.

LLAP
J:D

(Edited by John Dailey on 1/16, 7:05pm)


Post 18

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:27pmSanction this postReply
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Ed:

     Yeah, 'wrestle with demons become one...' is an ethical-territory prob...not only for fictional 'Jack', but, I'm sure for many (maybe 'too'?) undercover domestic police, and as well, international double-agents.

     A very interesting movie focusing on this personal-prob in career-choices is Deep Cover starring Larry Fishburne. --- "How far can you go, before you become one of 'them'?"

LLAP
J:D


Post 19

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 - 7:47pmSanction this postReply
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Ed:

     Then you ask about your beef with Jack's
recent, intended "sacrifice" of himself (because the terrorist demanded it) -- and his past "sacrifice" of his own boss (on president's orders -- again because terrorists were demanding it).
     I find the latter situation (a couple seasons ago) problematic, agreed; but, let's get clear: Jack didn't do such MERELY because the prez 'ordered' it. Jack's his own guy; if he thinks the prez is wrong re lethal territory...guess what Jack'll NOT do? This is how Jack is written, consistently; correct me if I'm wrong.

LLAP
J:D


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