RoR: Forum

THERE WILL BE ONLY 49 CONTESTANTS IN THE MISS BLACK AMERICA CONTEST THIS YEAR, BECAUSE NO ONE IN THE POTATO STATE WANTS TO WEAR THE RIBBON THAT SAYS "IDAHO".

Post 1

Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 2:44pm

I find that distasteful. It implies a way of thinking based upon race. I can imagine people feeling hurt reading that.

Post 2

Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 3:18pm

I think blonde jokes are funny. Maybe I'm too dumb to know I should be hurt by them.... :c/

Post 3

Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 5:59pm

No lap dance for you, Steve.

Post 4

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 3:53am

Bob joked:

No lap dance for you, Steve.

Does this mean I get his share?

Post 5

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 4:58am

Nope - taken.........;-)

Post 6

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 12:46pm

Bob:

     THAT was funny.

     There's such a thing as being 'overly-offendable' I'd say. If 'blondes' can deal with jokes about 'dumbness' (like the Polish USED to), why can't others lighten up a bit? --- Sure, Imus owed the team a public apology...but...he owed no-one-else, much less the likes of Sharpton and his followers. (I don't get the 'Santa' thing though.)

     Of course, some might say that blondes aren't traumatically insulted by the jokes because...well...I'll not risk offending blonde-defenders, so, I'll leave all to figure that reason out.

LLAP
J:D

Post 7

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 12:54pm

PS: excluding you, of course, Teresa. That there're no 'dumb blondes' in THIS forum is obvious.

LLAP
J:D

Post 8

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 1:29pm

At first, I was going to ignore Bob's racist joke, but I reminded myself that it is better to point out racism if we want to get rid of it. I didn't want to be a wet blanket. I actually do have a really good sense of humor. But an Objectivist forum seems like a good place to assert those beliefs that bear on the kind the world we want to live in. I like jokes and there are a great many jokes that don't involve naming blacks or jews or any other race.

Then when he came back with the smart-ass reply about the lap dance, it was funny - unless you held in context the fact that he was ignoring the issue of whether one should tell black jokes. Then it didn't seem so funny to me. But I decided to ignore it. After all, I'd made my point and that was all I wanted to do.

I was saddened to see his lap dance remark get sanctioned. I wondered, what kind of person wants to sanction an assertion of the rightness to behave in a racist fashion?

There are five people who have responded to this little thread that opens with a black joke and I'm the only one that has made a negative remark and I'm the one catching flack for objecting to it.

There is such a thing as not being sensitive enough.

Post 9

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 2:53pm

Here in Canada the postal codes are of the form A2H X6T--alternating letters and numbers. At Xmastime, kids are encouraged to write to Santa at:

North Pole
H0H 0H0

(Edited by Rodney Rawlings on 4/29, 3:11pm)

Post 10

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 3:21pm

Steve,

"There is such a thing as not being sensitive enough."

You've made a similar remark in other threads, indicating that you are offended simply when other people don't have the same visceral reaction to things that offend you. Especially if they "call themselves" objectivists. Evidently you have your own standard of politically correct speech and ideas. I am put off by this and find myself reluctant to engage in any discussion with you.

Did you miss the part on this forum where it says:

"Discuss this insensitive joke".

Post 11

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 3:43pm

To me, the very idea of a Miss Black America is racist. Ditto for the idea of Ebony magazine and such.

Post 12

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 4:03pm

Mike,

1. I was offended because it is a racial joke - not because "...other people don't have the same visceral reaction to things..."

2. You say you feel reluctant to engage in any discussion with me. Evidently not reluctant enough. Instead of "Discussing this insensitive joke" you decided to discuss me. Please feel free to exercise your reluctance.

3. You accuse me of having "...[my] own standard of politically correct speech and ideas." Does this mean that you find black jokes to be morally acceptable? I was under the impression that racism was specifically NOT Objectivist.

4. You ask if I missed the part on this forum where it says, "Discuss this insensitive joke" - what about my reply was not a discussion of this joke? What about your reply was about this joke?

Post 13

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 4:17pm

If Bob P. was a black guy, and told the same joke in this forum, would you still feel the same way, Steve?

I mean, arn't stereotypes a huge component of comedy?

(Edited by Teresa Summerlee Isanhart on 4/29, 4:19pm)

Post 14

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 5:11pm

"Please feel free to exercise your reluctance."

Done.

Post 15

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 5:54pm

I've always enjoyed ethnic humor. For this, I make no apologies.

My first exposure to political correctness was as a teenager in the seventies when I heard that the Frito-Lay Co. had discontinued the "Frito Bandito" as a company mascot, after complaints by Hispanic groups that the character was defamatory against Hispanics.

I loved that character and was angry over Frito-Lay's decision. I still miss that cute little thief.

I loved the character of "Chop-Chop" in the early Blackhawk Comics.

I also loved "Hop Sing" from Bonanza and "Heyboy" from Have Gun, Will Travel. Yes, ethnic stereo-types, all. It's a shame the number of cartoons and comics featuring these stereo-types that have been kept out of circulation for years due to fears of offending and being called racist.

I've read that a fan favorite story from the forties, "Captain Marvel Vs. the Monster Society of Evil" which was serialized in Captain Marvel Adventures over twenty-five issues, has not been reprinted because it contains ethnic stereotypes.

One of the reasons stereo-types exist is because they are just that, so typical. That does not mean that all or a majority of Hispanics are thieves or any other example you want to use to make the point. Everyone is an individual and should be treated as such and individuals do not always act to type. There are many blacks, believe it or not, who have no rhythm. And we all know "white men can't jump."

Context is very important and, like anything else, stereo-types can be used for good or evil. They can be used as propaganda against Jews as Hitler did in Germany or for good in humor.

I've always thought Jackie Mason was very funny. But he's been attacked by Jewish groups for his Jewish ethnic humor. Mason will have none of this political correctness and continues despite the controversy. And c'mon, who is going to deny that Jewish mothers aren't notorious for inflicting unearned guilt on their children. Yes, this is a stereo-type, it is typical, and no, it does not apply to all Jewish mothers.

Hell, black comedians, like Richard Pryor, have been telling black jokes to audiences for decades. But if a white comedian tells the same joke it's suddenly racist? Please.

Anyone who has never seen the episode of Murphy Brown called "Political Correctness" (this was from when the show was still funny) should do so. I don't remember all the details but Murphy unintentionally insults some group on the air, is told to apologize, and is required to attend group sensitivity training. She ends up unintentionally insulting person after person in the group until she finally tells everyone off and exposes just how crippling to communication political correctness is.

Another good example of the results of political correctness are demonstrated in the hilarious Politically Correct Bedtime Stories:
The wolf said, "You know, my dear, it isn't safe for a little girl to walk through these woods alone."
Red Riding Hood said, "I find your sexist remark offensive in the extreme, but I will ignore it because of your traditional status as an outcast from society, the stress of which has caused you to develop your own, entirely valid, worldview. Now, if you'll excuse me, I must be on my way."

There's an old tagline a local radio station used to use. It went, "We aren't being rude. You're just too sensitive."

Anyway, that's my take on all this.

Post 16

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 6:25pm

Bob: Don't forget Stan Freberg's "Elderly Man River". I think this was in the '60s.

The setting is as follows: A musical radio program is going on and Stan is the host. Just before he introduces the next song, a man walks up and announces himself.
Man: My name is Tweedly. [he places emphasis on, and draws out, "Tweedly".]
Stan: Well, we all have our problems.
Tweedly states that he is there to ensure that Stan does play anything that he finds offensive. Tweedly will activate his horn every time Stan does something offensive. Stan is hesitant, but decides to go on and starts his introduction.
Bzzzzzt! Stan forgot to be polite and thank Mr. Tweedly.
Stan: Why, that's a darling little horn you have there, Mr. Tweedly.
Stan introduces the next song, "Old Man River", and begins to sing.
"Old man river, that old man..." Bzzzzzt!
Stan: Okay Tweedly, politeness I dig, but what is wrong with "old man river"?
Tweedly: The word "old" has a connotation that some of the more elderly people find offensive. I suggest you make the substitution.
Stan: I suppose you insist.
Tweedly: Naturally.
Stan begins again.
"Elderly man river, that elderly man river. He must know somethin', but he don't say nothin'." Bzzzzzt!
Tweedly chides Stan for improper grammar.
Stan: "Somethin'," "somethin'," it's authentic.
Tweedly says that proper grammar should be used at all times, since "we must be a good influence on... children." [There's a pause and then 'children' is drawn out.]
By now, Stan is starting to get the hang of this, and begins again.
"Elderly man river, that elderly man river. He must know something, but he doesn't say anything. He just keeps rollin' [catches himself] rolling, he just keeps rolling along."
"He don't [Bzzt] doesn't plant taters [catches himself] potatoes, he doesn't plant cotton [catches himself] cotting, because these/them/those that plants them are soon forgotting. Elderly man river, he just keeps rolling along."
The song continues...
"...Body's all aching and wracked with pain." Well, we got by with that one.
"Tote that barge, lift that bail. You get a little..." [Stan slows down and stops here, since the rest of it is "drunk and land in jail".]
Stan: Okay, Tweedly, you can take your finger off the buzzer.
Stan gives up at this point, and wraps up the show.
Bzzzt
Stan: Oh, yes, and thank you, Mr. Tweedly.
Tweedly: You're quite welcome, I'm sure.

Post 17

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 6:26pm

There was a troop of young Middle Eastern comics being interviewed on the radio last Friday, and their stuff was just fall down funny.

"Why do all of my friends ask ME why the price of gas is so high?? Man, I don't work for OPEC! How the hell do I know??"

"Arab, please..."

Cracked me up.

Post 18

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 6:47pm

Several years ago there used to be a Mexican food restaurant in our city called The Chicken Thief, whose logo was a slightly-diabolical-looking cartoon Mexican. I liked the name, thought it was clever (it ties food to Mexicanness, via the existing idea of chicken thieves). We ate there once or twice. A year or so after that, I noticed that the name of the place had been changed to something innocuous, and the logo was no more.

I immediately knew this was PC in action, and it annoyed me. Still does.

There used to be a Kellogg's Raisin Bran commercial with the most perfect caricature of simple country bumpkins in it, getting up and walking with bent legs in time to a banjo-pickin' version of "Two scoops of raisins in a package of Kellogg's Raisin Bran!" I loved it. It was just such a dead-on "impression" of countriness, I thought even country folks could appreciate it. But soon I heard that the commercial had been taken off the air due to protests from some quarters.

PC in action for sure this time. Annoyed me. Still does.

The reason these two examples are not racist or otherwise chauvinistic is that no one was implying, and no one could possibly think it was being implied, that all Mexicans are thiefs and all country people are simple. However, Miss Black America, Black Entertainment Television, and any kind of "black" awards are implying racism in the most in-your-face way.

That is why I can laugh at ethnic jokes, but think the Academy Awards in which Halle Berry won was the most racialism-soaked event I had ever seen the whole world praise to the skies.

(Edited by Rodney Rawlings on 4/29, 6:49pm)

Post 19

Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 7:08pm