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Post 20

Tuesday, March 6 - 6:37pmSanction this postReply
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I defined my terms and the definitions are consistent.

Consider the implication of Steve Wolfer saying that preference racists are bigots (or substitute any other hazy slur).  Since most everybody, of any race, is a preference racist – what percentage of the whites you know date Pakistanis? – he is saying that most everybody is a bigot (or whatever).  If so, OK, but now “bigot” means even less than it did before.

Anyway, I don’t care.  I got used to being called a bigot long ago.  We’re all bigots now.



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Post 21

Tuesday, March 6 - 7:07pmSanction this postReply
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Mark, the bigot, wrote:

 

"Since most everybody, of any race, is a preference racist ..."

 

But they aren't.  To be a racist means making moral judgments of person based upon their race.  And we know what "preference" means.  Putting those two words together, while dropping the moral judgment part part of "racist", is just a sneaky way of saying bigotry is okay, because everyone is a bigot.

 

Nice try, but no cigar.



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Post 22

Tuesday, March 6 - 7:22pmSanction this postReply
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Not dating Pakistanis doesn't necessarily mean a racial preference.  It could mean a cultural preference.  It could mean not having had the opportunity to get to know any Pakistanis well enough to start dating them.  It could mean a religious preference, and not having met any non-Muslim Pakistanis.



Post 23

Tuesday, March 6 - 7:22pmSanction this postReply
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SW,

 

To be a judgmental racist means making moral judgements of a person based on their race.

One can prefer one person over another for some purpose or other without making a moral judgment.  Again, a good example is ones choice of whom to date.

 

(Edited by Mark Hunter on 3/06, 7:23pm)



Post 24

Tuesday, March 6 - 7:26pmSanction this postReply
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DM,

... could, could, could, could ...

Fact is almost always race is a factor in dating.  It is so much a factor it goes without thinking.



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Post 25

Tuesday, March 6 - 7:39pmSanction this postReply
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Mark,

 

Traditionally there was enough racism and segregation to make interracial dating rare.  (I recall my mother, who died over half a century ago, saying that she didn't object to interracial relationships but she wasn't sure she wanted her children to be the ones to start it.)  But this has been changing.



Post 26

Tuesday, March 6 - 7:57pmSanction this postReply
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To which I reply, yealch.  Miscegenation is promoted by the cultural leftist media in movies and TV shows.  Yaron Brook promotes it; eventually I’ll write an article quoting him.  I’ve already written an article about ARI promoting someone who promotes it, namely Jason Hill.

Nevertheless ethnocentric marriage is not just a question of tradition. Small children are natural preferential racists – psychological studies have been done about it.




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Post 27

Tuesday, March 6 - 9:05pmSanction this postReply
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I might 'prefer' vanilla ice cream over chocolate, but I don't attempt to outlaw the manufacture or importation of chocolate ice cream.

 

I suspect that everyone reading this thread sees through the "preferential" crap Hunter is spouting.  He claims that there is an inherent and universal racial bias in all people.  That it manifests, as a matter of human nature, in a preference for their own race.  Then he wants to take that intellectual twaddle and make it the basis of immigration laws - and maybe to outlaw mixed marriages. 

 

Does he want to ship blacks to Africa?  Is that his preference?  Tell us, Mark, what laws do you think we should have.

 

Is his longstanding hatred for Yaroon Brook and ARI because they reject his racist views?



Post 28

Tuesday, March 6 - 10:24pmSanction this postReply
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Steve writes in Post #13: 

"Rand lived in an era where the black bigotry was no where near as intense as it is today." 

I dispute that. Rand was popular, and wrote about philosophy, mainly from 1962 to 1976. This was almost exactly when black racism was at its worst. Malcolm X back then said: "The white man is the devil," and huge numbers of blacks agreed. This was the era of the Black Panthers. They all believed in "black power" and black supremacism. It was all rich, raw, ugly, crude, and terrible. The black racism situation is far milder today. The Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world are dying out and not being replaced. 


I think Rand said virtually nothing during this period because she had many, many other philosophical battles to fight, each more impossible than the next. She was amazingly heroic, but she evidently didn't want this extra headache. So she strategically fell silent in the face of egregious societal evil. Big mistake, in my view! Rand evaded reality; she pretended it was other than what it was. This was a moral failing on her part rather similar, in my view, to the way she soft-pedaled her atheism.

That my remarks aren't "flat out absurd", and that Rand failed wildly on this, can be seen in her current followers, virtually none of which can think, or even want to think. As far as I can tell, all the leading intellectuals at the AS and the ARI have been identically silent on black bigotry since Rand died in 1982. I mean, look at all the hideous racism in the current hit movie Black Panther! Is there even the tiniest chance in hell any leading Objectivist will note it -- let alone intellectually and morally condemn it, as it cries out for and utterly deserves? 



Post 29

Tuesday, March 6 - 10:51pmSanction this postReply
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SW,

 

I might prefer not to rent to Asians or whatever but I wouldn’t attempt to outlaw renting to them.
 
Immigration policy is another question entirely.  No one has a right to immigrate to a country, and stable, pleasant countries are ethnostates or as close to it as they can be.  The U.S. in the 1950s was about 90% white and it worked well before the government violated freedom of association.  Today after forty or so years of mass Third World immigration we are in a mess and the U.S. may break up like the erstwhile Soviet Union.    

When you find yourself in a hole the first thing you ought to do is stop digging.  We should not accept any more non-whites, and if that is politically impossible not accept anyone.

I’ve defined my terms consistently and forthrightly.  What I write is transparent, there is no obscurity to see through.  Preference racism versus judgmental racism is a real and useful distinction.

Preference racism in small children has been scientifically demonstrated, look it up.  After they’ve been browbeaten by do-gooder adults they try to hide it but it's still there, like sex in a Victorian.

No, Mark doesn’t want to forcefully ship blacks to Africa, LOL, though I think we’d both be happier if Blacks had their own country, like the Jews have Israel.  (Now will someone say I want to ship Jews to Israel, LOL?)

As for disliking ARI, I present the case for it in great detail on ARI Watch.  The link is to a video of Yaron Brook saying so!


 

(Edited by Mark Hunter on 3/06, 10:52pm)



Post 30

Tuesday, March 6 - 10:55pmSanction this postReply
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Doug -- Your reply in Post #17 was a stunning evasion. This is a cardinal Objectivist sin. But I expected it. You give every indication of being a total liar and coward and scumbag on this subject, and many or all others. If my memory is correct, you were the same on the topic of Muslims and Islam, maybe a month ago.

So why should anyone discuss issues with you, if you attempt to destroy every single discussion? If you won't admit a single fact? If you won't allow the discussion to advance in any respect? If you won't make a single positive statement of substance, or answer anyone else's queries? In effect, you argue that all knowledge on every subject is unknown and unknowable, and thus all debates are a pure waste of time. So why do you participate here at all?

Yes, I know. You're pure evil. You seek to troll and terminate every conversation, and make all knowledge, conclusions, and truths unreachable and impossible. You thus hope to make everyone miserable, and to hurt as many innocents as you can.

Still, let me assume that I'm possibly wrong about some of this, and that you're conceivably not utter vermin. So I'll try again: What in your view are the intellectual and mental differences between the races, including their moral and criminal ones, based on natural biology and genetic inheritance? 



Post 31

Tuesday, March 6 - 11:22pmSanction this postReply
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To clear up some confusion, for anyone who actually seeks that: When people choose their friends, lovers, colleagues, neighbors, etc. they always have various personal preferences, based on their individual nature and nurture. Thus each individual, whether consciously or not, prefers and generally seeks, those of a certain gender, age, intelligence, education, morality, manners, personality, race, sub-race, nationality, tribe, height, weight, athleticism, philosophy, religion, social history, personal history, experience, attitude, character, skin color, hair color, eye color, health, wealth, ambition, desire, outlook, etc. None of these personal preferences makes you a bigot, racist, sexist, homophobe, tribalist, ageist, lookist, heightist, weightist, etc. And none of this makes bigotry, racism, sexism, tribalism, etc. natural, normal, proper, decent, or morally tolerable.



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Post 32

Wednesday, March 7 - 10:19amSanction this postReply
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SW,

 

I might prefer not to rent to Asians or whatever but I wouldn’t attempt to outlaw renting to them.
 
Immigration policy is another question entirely.  No one has a right to immigrate to a country, and stable, pleasant countries are ethnostates or as close to it as they can be.  The U.S. in the 1950s was about 90% white and it worked well before the government violated freedom of association.  Today after forty or so years of mass Third World immigration we are in a mess and the U.S. may break up like the erstwhile Soviet Union.    

When you find yourself in a hole the first thing you ought to do is stop digging.  We should not accept any more non-whites, and if that is politically impossible not accept anyone.

I’ve defined my terms consistently and forthrightly.  What I write is transparent, there is no obscurity to see through.  Preference racism versus judgmental racism is a real and useful distinction.

Preference racism in small children has been scientifically demonstrated, look it up.  After they’ve been browbeaten by do-gooder adults they try to hide it but it's still there, like sex in a Victorian.

No, Mark doesn’t want to forcefully ship blacks to Africa, LOL, though I think we’d both be happier if Blacks had their own country, like the Jews have Israel.  (Now will someone say I want to ship Jews to Israel, LOL?)

As for disliking ARI, I present the case for it in great detail on ARI Watch.  The link is to a video of Yaron Brook saying so!

Wow.



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Post 33

Wednesday, March 7 - 7:23pmSanction this postReply
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Kyrel,

 

If there is any genetic difference between the races intellectually, mentally, morally, or criminally, individual differences within each race are much greater than any racial effect.

 

It is not possible to prove anything conclusive about whether some small genetic difference exists because there are other very important causes for statistical differences between the races, having to do with racial differences in how people have been treated.  These differences in how people have been treated are still with us.  Government interference has slowed down the natural process of correcting the effects of differences in how people have been treated.  

 

I'm sure you'll call what I'm saying a lying, cowardly evasion. But how much basis do you really have for your belief in important biological differences?

 

I do not attempt to destroy any discussion.  I do not "admit" to your "facts" for the same reason that I do not "admit" to being an agent of the government of the planet Venus; I do not "admit" to untruths.  

 

I do my best to encourage discussions to advance.  One thing I do to this end is to encourage people to explain themselves where necessary, so that there will be something to discuss.

 

I make positive statements of substance and answer all queries to the best of my ability, but you seem too bigoted to understand or appreciate this.

 

I maintain that all knowledge on every subject is either known or knowable.  No debate needs to be a waste of time.  You tend to turn debates into wastes of time by refusing to clarify or explain your statements and by assuming that those who disagree with you are simply guilty of bad faith. 

 

I never troll.  I do not seek to terminate any conversation.  I try to make all knowledge, truths, and sound conclusions reachable and possible.  I do not want to make anyone miserable or to hurt anyone, especially not anyone innocent.

 

You need to give me some indications you're not moral vermin.  A good way to start would be by explaining your positions better.



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Post 34

Wednesday, March 7 - 8:22pmSanction this postReply
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Mark Hunter,

 

There is a lot that small children do not understand.  Also, they are very vulnerable to cultural and parental influence.

 

Children tend to be intolerant of differences even when the differences are positive ones, such as greater intelligence or greater studiousness, or neutral ones, such as a different accent.



Post 35

Friday, March 9 - 1:03amSanction this postReply
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Doug: You seem like an utter fraud, pure waste of time, and not at all worth talking with. Please don't address me again. 



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