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Post 60

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 12:27pmSanction this postReply
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Adam,

I personally examined some evidence on the Peron issue, including his own slew of recent contradictory public statements.

I also just now considered the nagonka issue. There is something similar in Brasil (they call it apelação, which is used both in politics and in advertising, of all things - go figure, that's Brazil). The concepts, that of making a strong emotional appeal that makes the listener suspend rational judgment, seem to be identical in essence.

I did not suffer from that process - neither nagonka nor apelação. Nor brainwashing. I do not believe that Linz did either, despite his bombastic manner of writing.

I know I based my judgment on the evidence I saw. I believe Linz did too (only he saw much more and much earlier than I did).

I stand by my condemnation.

Michael

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Post 61

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 12:31pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

"...do you think the person who wrote that pearl or erudition you quoted would have written anything different in essence?"

Answer: YES.

As Sciabarra has himself said, the attack on Rand based on her sex life, and her private life generally, comes from the Brandens's accounts alone.

Casey

(edit: I do agree that no matter where this load of hateful lies from the Brandens originated, if it arrived in the same package with all of the insinuations and lurid speculation and fabrications and obfuscations and self-serving omissions and reliance on cliched story points and exploitation of conventional thinking, it may have had the same effect and been just as eagerly snapped up by her critics as an excuse to dismiss her philosophy -- but that's stealing an awful lot of essential context to be useful as a hypothetical, especially since the Brandens were uniquely positioned to be relied on as sources for all of this, and Peikoff wouldn't be, and Peikoff wouldn't have spun this whole sensational context that the Brandens concocted, etc., etc., etc., etc.)

(Edited by Casey Fahy on 9/10, 12:40pm)

(Edited by Casey Fahy on 9/10, 12:48pm)

(Edited by Casey Fahy on 9/10, 12:49pm)


Post 62

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 12:35pmSanction this postReply
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Casey,

Then we disagree big time. I think that person hates Rand irrespective of the Brandens.

Michael


Post 63

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 12:41pmSanction this postReply
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See my edited post above.

Post 64

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 12:47pmSanction this postReply
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Casey,

So you think that mainstream critics and haters of Ayn Rand's philosophy would have not made use of her unorthodox marital arrangement if it had been presented in a different manner? They would have seen the light and simply dismissed it as an unusual choice?

That sounds like an awfully big hole to ignore for one who purports to value reality.

Michael


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Post 65

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 12:50pmSanction this postReply
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You write: "just in case there is a rational good will somewhere amid all that hatred..." I invite readers to review all the various posts here – and elsewhere – to find for themselves where the "goodwill" has been exhibited.

There are lots of affairs. Rand's was honest. It would have been a pretty empty attack without the Brandens.

Of course, as Casey has noted, the attack in COMMENTARY – and so many other places – would have been unfair. It would have probably described Objectivism incorrectly. But it simply could not have attacked Rand – or O'Connor – as it did. Please reread the cited passage and tell us where else the author could have gotten that stuff.
(Edited by James S. Valliant
on 9/10, 12:52pm)

(Edited by James S. Valliant
on 9/10, 1:03pm)


Post 66

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 12:50pmSanction this postReply
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Well, I'm going to review what Barbara said in The Passion of Ayn Rand, Valliant said in his book (pps 141-145), her email to me, the recent apropos posts on this thread about Frank O'Connor's alleged alcoholism and put what I think about it all up on this thread. Unfortunately, while I'm going to storage today, I may not be able to find Barbara's book out of the 1500-1700 in cardboard boxes and may have to order it from Amazon. Barbara, if you are reading this and want me to put up a statement from you, not your email to me, please send it to me and I will do so. If you want me to put up the email please let me know. I want to.

--Brant


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Post 67

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 12:54pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

Thanks for providing the motive.

Of course, they would have hurled all the thunderbolts of conventional thinking they could grab to attack Rand's personal life if they heard even the briefest inference of an affair, even a consensual one where none of the parties were betrayed or deceived or coerced.

That's WHY the Brandens fed this truly drooling beast in the first place, Michael. Are you starting to get the picture now?

(Edited by Casey Fahy on 9/10, 12:54pm)


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Post 68

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 1:31pmSanction this postReply
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When we do not have first hand knowledge about a well-known event or controversy, we have to rely on common sense, personal experience and general knowledge to assess which side of the “he said/she said” accounts to believe.  Barbara Branden cites evidence that Frank O’Connor may have turned to alcoholism to cope with his wife’s affair.  In PARC, Valliant not only dismisses the alcoholism charge, but actually contends that O’Connor may not have been disturbed by the infidelity. 

 

As a licensed therapist and a human being, I can say without qualification that there are few things in life more painful than a romantic partner's sexual infidelity.   This is true of a typical one-night stand devoid of any hint or expression of love.  Imagine the unspeakable agony a man would have to experience when his wife engages in an affair that lasts over a decade—a relationship in which his wife expresses overwhelming passion for a rival she describes as the walking embodiment of her highest ideals.  Given the horror he was asked to endure in the name of her unique greatness, how could anyone criticize O’Connor for looking for solace wherever he could find it?   And which account—Barbara Branden’s or Valliant’s—has the foundation of plausibility?

 

 Whatever his faults, Frank O’Connor was an exceptionally sensitive man.  He was anything but a mediocrity.  My all-time favorite piece of art—which has been hanging on my wall for well over 30 years—is “Painting Within a Painting.”  It speaks to me on levels that defy comprehension.  There are certain circumstances that no human being should ever have to endure.  That such a remarkable and complex man found a way to survive his personal hell—whether it was somewhere inside his artistic soul or a bottle of  Jack Daniels--is a testament to his own uniqueness and greatness.

 

But, of course, those who attack Barbara’s allegations of alcoholism as baseless are not really doing so in defense of Frank O’Connor.  They are clinging fast to their utterly indefensible glorification of  the purity and perfection of Ayn Rand.


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Post 69

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 1:41pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Hardin,

Rand was not without flaw, to be sure, as I say in my book more than once – even citing some evidence to that effect. But, O'Connor remained with Rand, and even remained affectionate with Rand, throughout. For what it is worth, Mr. Branden's own account of O'Connor's attitude and conduct suggests something outside of the range of normal reactions and mere "plausibilities." And, without recapitulating the entire argument of the book, let me say that I do not claim to know the complete nature O'Connor's actual reaction – I merely question every aspect of the Brandens' accounts and suggest that there is considerable evidence to contradict them.
(Edited by James S. Valliant
on 9/10, 1:42pm)

(Edited by James S. Valliant
on 9/10, 2:37pm)


Post 70

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 1:50pmSanction this postReply
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Adam said:
The elegance of the political nagonka is that it is precisely the subjects' decency, their normal motive for dissent, which is being used to turn enemies of tyranny into its supporters and collaborators, and to turn dissidents into objects of disgust.
Thanks for the information, Adam.
Glenn


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Post 71

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 1:56pmSanction this postReply
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Valliant, stand aside, you're being far too nice.

Dennis, lighten UP, dude. When the affair with Branden started, Ayn Rand and Frank O'Connor had been married for 25 years (Ayn was 49 and Frank was 57, and they married when Ayn was 24 and Frank was 32). Nathaniel Branden was 24 when he initiated the affair with Rand. According to the Brandens, at least, Rand slept with two men in her WHOLE LIFE.

The fact that after 25 years of marriage Frank might have found the effect of Branden's sexual interest in his wife exciting to witness is not outside the range of human capacity, as you so bizarrely seem to imagine.

(Edited by Casey Fahy on 9/10, 1:58pm)


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Post 72

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 2:19pmSanction this postReply
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Dennis,

One can take ethnocentrism only so far without falling into bullshit. There was NO "infidelity" for Frank O'Connor to be traumatized by - the "affair" took place with his full knowledge and assent. There is a long history of men (and even more often women) assenting to, and even encouraging, concurrent romantic relationships that contribute to the happiness of their partner. As long as two thousand years ago Bruriah, the greatest woman intellectual of the Talmud, obtained her husband's assent to a romantic relationship with one of his students - and there is no indication whatever that her husband was "traumatized" by it.

I have some very negative comments about several aspects of Valiant's book, but his discussion of the ethical aspects of such relationships - as long as they are open and honest - in Chapter 5 of PARC is exemplary. I recommend that you read it.

(Edited by Adam Reed
on 9/10, 2:30pm)


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Post 73

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 2:32pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you, Adam. I look forward to your other comments. (Perhaps they can contribute to the already in-the-works next edition.)

Post 74

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 2:46pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

The reason why civilized men insist that the actions of their governments be limited by due process - rather than the cheaper and faster process of lynching - is that it is very easy to draw false conclusions from unchallenged and unconfronted "evidence" for the prosecution. I've had some very harsh things to say about the implications of Jim Peron's public statements, but they were made under extreme stress - and the fact remains that after living in New Zealand for ten years, he was exiled from his home without the least minimum of due process required for government action by normal human decency.

As for the efficacy of nagonka, consider the fact that Linz himself endorsed the judgement of a government official whose own moral character is so debased, that he has taken on the job of forcibly censoring what his fellow citizens are allowed to read. If this is not an effect of nagonka, then it is inexplicable.

(Edited by Adam Reed
on 9/10, 3:03pm)


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Post 75

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 4:03pmSanction this postReply
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Adam says:

As for the efficacy of nagonka, consider the fact that Linz himself endorsed the judgement of a government official whose own moral character is so debased, that he has taken on the job of forcibly censoring what his fellow citizens are allowed to read. If that is not the effect of nagonka, then it is inexplicable.

Adam, you're skating on very thin ice.

I did not endorse anything. I reported the censor's finding as part of my response to Mr. Riggenbach's inquiry. I specifically said I was not, in that post, going to deal with questions of the propriety of censorship, immigration laws, etc.. I observed that the censor who classified Peron's magazine as indecent is frequently abused by conservatives for being too liberal in his findings. Regardless of the censor, the magazine, as a matter of demonstrable fact, promotes pedophilia. I object to "libertarians" who insinuate pedophilia into the libertarian agenda. That's my beef with Peron, but it has nothing to do with his being banned by our authorities. The NZ Government may or may not be treating him unjustly, but believe it or not, I have no influence over the New Zealand Government.

Barbara was defending Peron. My point in raising this again was not to revive that whole matter but simply to highlight a disturbing discrepancy in standards of evidence applied by her. She defends (or am I to understand that's past tense now?) Peron in the face of very strong evidence against him; she brands me an alcoholic in the face of no real evidence at all. Given, then, my first-hand experience of these peculiar standards, I am left quite sceptical when BB claims Frank was an alcoholic. Previously I had assumed he was because BB said he was.

I had also assumed that any mistakes in BB's book—& there inevitably would be some—would be innocent, inadvertent & inconsequential. I accepted the judgement of friends who told me the Valliant book was based on tortuous, inconsequential minutiae, used to justify outrageous conclusions. I am on record as saying we should all be looking forward, not backward–that I couldn't care less if Rand's name was taken from a Rand-Remmington type-writer; what's important is what she wrote on it. I privately urged Barbara to ignore the book & get on with important matters. Recent events, however, have persuaded me that at the very least I should read the bloody thing for myself.

I've also been impressed by James's & Casey's demeanour here. If they are truly crazed Branden-haters, then they disguise it very well. I don't think their cause was helped by the fact that the book was heralded on SOLORejects.com as "The end of the Brandens," or by the fact that James went on to that site to bask in the applause of all phive nut-cases who post there. The chief phruit-loop there definitely is a crazed Branden-hater, & it was imprudent of James to be seen in his company.

MSK—Barbara could have no better defender than you, & I salute your fierce loyalty to a friend. I hope it doesn't turn out to be misguided. I appreciate the awful dilemma you're in, given your loyalty to me as well. Ultimately, only you can resolve it.

I'm not thrilled that BB & I have ended up pitted against each other. We go back many years, to the radio interview I recorded with her in 1995 that is for sale here at SOLO. I defy anyone to listen to the last part of that interview dry-eyed. In the years since, we had this running gag where she was "Majesty" & I was "Humble." We collaborated on many projects together, most recently, of course, Holding Court, right here. To lose such a friendship in such a bitter way is a terrible wrench. I wish it could be retrieved. I've no interest in Branden-bashing. But I must say that everything Casey & James are writing here, given Drooling Beast, is giving me cause for pause in a way I never thought it would.

Linz









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Post 76

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 4:50pmSanction this postReply
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Linz,

Thank you for the clarification. While you have no direct influence on New Zealand's politics, I doubt if any freedom-loving person in New Zealand would fail to protest the precedent - if it were not for the nagonka. If I lived there, I would find the fact that a ten-year-resident can be exiled without so much as a hearing, on the unconfronted assertion of the government censor, positively frightening. I do not agree with you about the "evidence" against Peron, because I have seen what appeared to be even stronger cases demolished in court. If he were my friend - as he appears to be Barbara Branden's - I also would not back down until the alleged evidence against him was tested in the open. Your accusations against Barbara Branden on this issue are unreasonable.

On the other hand, Barbara Branden does have, like every human, a tendency to remember, interpret and report things from her own perspective - which, in the case of her relationship with Ayn Rand, is the perspective of a participant in deception. The narratives of such participants are inevitably slanted. So are, inevitably, all the narratives of parti pris advocates for one side or the other. The difference is that everyone is aware of Valiant being a lawyer and a partisan, while many give Barbara Branden credit for greater objectivity than she actually has. She has made valuable contributions, and is useful to read and to talk with - but without forgetting that she, too, is her own partisan. I consider this a reason for discernment rather than condemnation.


(Edited by Adam Reed
on 9/10, 4:52pm)


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Post 77

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 4:53pmSanction this postReply
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I'm on page 120 of Valliant's book and it's fantastic. It's not a legal brief at all. He lays out the claims of Rand, Nathaniel Branden, and Barbara Branden and let's the reader decide who is committed to the truth.

Rand was the Branden's meal ticket. They lied to her (over a period of years) to hang on to that meal ticket. Valliant's book demonstrates this without a shadow of a doubt. Read it without prejudice.
     
Ayn Rand was exploited by the Brandens.


Note: I previously recommended Barbara Branden's book. After reading what Rand said I find myself questioning Barbara's motives.


Post 78

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 5:19pmSanction this postReply
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["...and the poison seeps into the marrow - Fie uponst unrest!" RICHARD III]

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Post 79

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 5:20pmSanction this postReply
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Adam,

I can only ask you to consider the nature of the various errors made. The repeated distortion of the evidence is itself revealing but not definitive. If it were merely most of the errors delineated in the first three chapters of my book, I would also have concluded that such errors were a matter of (distorted) perspective. But there are also areas where information appears to have been intentionally suppressed. Mr. Branden's 1968 statement – which Ms. Branden endorsed – cannot have been honest, as I argue at length in the book. Both Brandens' continued endorsement of that statement (to this day) is highly disturbing. Then, the very nature of such an accusation as alcoholism, where Ms. Branden admits she has no personal knowledge, and other similar accusations, lead me, in all sincerity, to my conclusion. It did not come easily, and it took me years to finally accept this.

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