Challenge for Rand scholars: What in the world is "Ergitandal"?

The word "Ergitandal" occurs twice in Ayn Rand's final preparatory notes for Atlas Shrugged as published in The Journals of Ayn Rand (New York: Dutton, 1997), on pages 523 and 543. The first time, there is an editor's note as follows: "[What 'Ergitandal' refers to is unknown.]" It has something to do with Dagny's feeling of something very important happening in the world that is only manifest in small ways.

Does anyone have any more information, or clues or ideas?

Post 1

Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 3:37am

I wonder about this too. In fact, my AOL instant messenger screenname is Ergitandal. I'd really like to know.

Post 2

Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 9:36pm

I'm not sure what it means, but you could look up Nathaniel Branden's email on the internet, and ask him directly. I've emailed him before about things, and he does respond pretty quickly.

Maybe she told him, or he knows someone who might know.

Not sure if I'd even bother trying to have the question sent to Leonard Peikoff; I've heard he's a mean-spirited snob.

Post 3

Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 8:30am

Good idea. I just withdrew from the NB group, however. If someone else wants to try it, please go ahead.

Assuming it is not a very private reference only AR would understand, I have some thoughts:

It may be the name of a minor character in some literary work (not a major one, since Google returns nothing).
It may be a mispelling of another proper noun--a serious misspelling that Google would not pick up on.

I thought it might be split up somehow--"Ergit and Al" sounds like some kind of entertainment duo. Spelled backwards, it is "ladnatigre"--note the French word for tiger, tigre (Ayn Rand knew French). "La tigre" looks promising, but tigre is masculine, not feminine in gender. And what would "dna" mean in this context?

Post 4

Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 9:14am

Hi, Rodney.

A couple of ideas to chew on.

There are at least two Greek roots in "ergitandal". The first is "erg" which means work. The second is "tantalos" which via Latin means to tantalize or to torment by keeping out of reach. Therefore, could "ergitandal" be Rand's coinage for being tantalized by barely perceptible activity? Of course, the "d" in place of the second "t" argues against this. However, there is a Greek word "dalos" that Rand may have combined with "erg" and "tantal-", but I don't know the meaning of the word to hazard an opinion.

Another possibility is Russian. If you spell "ergitandal" backwards, you get "lad na tigre", which means to carry a tune upon a tiger. That evokes some interesting images, but exactly how it applies to "Atlas Shrugged", ya ne znayu.

Food for thought.

Regards,
Bill

Post 5

Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 9:46am

I think I'll let the tiger chew on those! And on a few of my own. Bon app�tit!

(Edited by Rodney Rawlings on 5/30, 9:56am)

Post 6

Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 9:17pm

also of note is that a group called "the heroists", a group of self taught video game designers who have set themselves to applying objectivist aesthetics to the design of video games, have either created or are in the process of creating (i'm not sure if its done or not) a computer game called "erginthal"

Post 7

Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 9:21pm

make that ergintandal. sorry, wasnt watching what I was typing

Post 8

Monday, May 31, 2004 - 1:37am

Barbara Branden graces the Yahoo! SOLO forum every once in a while. She might know...

But it's probably been asked before, and if someone knew it would have been explained by now. It's most likely a proper noun Rand just made up, and liked the sound of, but didn't use. Novelists do that.

The mysteries are always fun, aren't they? : P

Post 9

Monday, May 31, 2004 - 7:56am

Robert, the video gamers themselves misspell the word, putting an extra "n" in it! Did they do this with AR's "Ergitandal" in mind? If so, why misspell it?

Post 10

Monday, May 31, 2004 - 12:11pm

I just copy pasted the "alternate version" of the word from the website of one of them. I suspect that its probably a typo, but I will ask if it is deliberate

Post 11

Wednesday, June 2, 2004 - 10:26pm

Here is a guess: Rand was doing something that's common in Slavic languages, which are "productive." That's a technical term in linguistics that means "having procedures for coining new terms." In non-productive languages, such as English, there are no standard procedures for coining and understanding neologisms. In English, when one needs a new concept, one uses a multi-word phrase, or appropriates an existing word. In technical vocabularies, productions use Latin or Greek components. As a native speaker of Polish, as Rand was of Russian, I find myself producing neologisms fairly often, and then have to find out how to translate them into something that's expected in English.

I think that Rand used the French suffix "-tendale," having a tendency toward, in English transliteration ("-tandal.") My guess is that the prefix is also French - "Erg" means "sand hill," something big from itty bitty grains. Little grains (in this case small hints, each of which by itself might pass unnoticed) with a tendency to build up into something that could be significant, if only one could figure out what it is. Too bad "Ergitandal" wasn't (yet?) a word.

Post 12

Thursday, June 3, 2004 - 5:49am

A very good speculation, Adam. In my estimation it would not be correct, all things considered. But you never know. Doesn't German, which Rand also knew, like to create portmanteau words?

Post 13

Thursday, June 3, 2004 - 7:01am

Rodney,

You write, "In my estimation it would not be correct, all things considered." Would you like to say why not? To me it seems to match the context, and the apparently intended meaning, quite well.

Post 14

Thursday, June 3, 2004 - 10:05am

Several things factor into my opinion here:

Rand pointedly capitalizes the word both times.
To my knowledge she has never constructed other words in this fashion.
The syllable "-it-" is still unaccounted for.
If she used the French "-tendale," I don't think she would have anglicized it (by changing a letter and dropping the final "e"). She knew French very well of course.
It's all too roundabout as a candidate, since we know nothing and it is likely just a proper name that had a private meaning in AR's own mind.

Post 15

Friday, June 4, 2004 - 2:43am

Adam, you wrote:
"Erg" means "sand hill," something big from itty bitty grains. Little grains (in this case small hints, each of which by itself might pass unnoticed) with a tendency to build up into something that could be significant, if only one could figure out what it is...

Above most things, Rand was an admirer of America, at least the idea of it. I'm awful at languages--except my native one--but maybe this (something big from itty bitty grains) is kinda like E Pluribus Unum..."From Many, One."

That's just a simple shot in the dark because your interpretation caught my eye. We may never know...lol. It's odd that this is the only instance of some random non-word appearing in Rand's writings. You'd think there'd be more, just out of habit. Or at least a few practice words before we reach the eternally-befuddling "Ergitandal".

Ergit-goatcheese? Ergit-FordPinto? Er-Nixon-git-camel-and-tiddly-al? Hmmm....I have it! Ergitandal!

How very odd. Ah well, I'll forget about in another minute. : P

Post 16

Monday, June 7, 2004 - 12:44am

Jeremy, I'm sorry but I haven't the faintest idea what "ergitandal" means.

Barbara

Post 17

Tuesday, June 8, 2004 - 8:23pm

Oh well. Can't win 'em all! Thanks Barbara.

Good luck, you guys, you Rand scholars! : P

Post 18

Friday, June 18, 2004 - 3:26pm

I think it would help if you post the actual sentences before and after the one with ergitandal in it.

Post 19

Thursday, September 9, 2010 - 2:48pm