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Friday, March 5, 2004 - 1:58pmSanction this postReply
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Given that Mr. Perigo wishes to devote the board concerning Ms. Hsieh's article to the article alone and not any periferal subjects, I shall comply with this request and expand upon my discussion with Mr. Rowlands concerning the conditions under which SOLO would reconcile itself with Mr. Emrich.

Mr. Rowlands has made eloquent arguments in defense of his viewpoint, and I consider his claims to possess validity in certain respects. My purpose here will not be to argue against what he had posted, but rather to describe my general impressions of Mr. Emrich's conduct as well as my interpretation of what, precisely, may be needed for him to be accepted once again as a contributor to SOLO.

Mr. Rowlands writes, "Stolyarov, I think you're the farthest off. You say that Henry is a 'coalition builder'. Merely because he writes an article that says we should have coalitions? His first instinct is to not let you republish the article, and only does so after being show how hypocritical his action was. He spent a month trying to convince everyone that SOLO was evil and needed to die. He's attacked several people personally. And the first thing he does when he gets back is attacks Diana."

Mr. Rowlands, you are indeed correct in your factual narration of the episode over the reprinting of the article. Nevertheless, I had approached Mr. Emrich with reasoned, calm arguments as to why his response was inconsistent with the ideological message he had propagated, and Mr. Emrich not merely conceded the correctness of my claim but complimented me extensively. We have been on good terms since. I have gotten the impression, from this episode, that Mr. Emrich is in fact capable of admitting his mistakes and pursuing his principles.

As for Mr. Emrich's return posts, I do not consider his words to have "attacked" Ms. Hsieh in any way other than to disagree with her course of action and the mindset behind it. Mr. Emrich used no inflammatory expletives or ad hominem slurs. If we agree that Mr. Perigo's "bollocks" comment was of no substantial bother (which opinion I do share, by the way; I would have done nothing but shrug it off were I in the position of someone interested and participating in the organo-centrism discussion), then Mr. Emrich's returning messages are even milder and more proper in comparison.

Mr. Rowlands: His delusional paranoia makes him think that he's being censored when every one of his posts was posted intact. He thought anyone who disagreed with him must obviously be a cultist. He thought everyone was out to get him.  

Mr. Stolyarov: I will be the first to defend SOLO and claim that there exists no "censorship" or "cultism" within the organization, even if every post must be passed through moderation. (I have had to enact the same policy on The Rational Argumentator, after spammer-bots tainted my Yahoo! mailing group with pornografy).

Though Mr. Emrich's accusations in this respect were indeed unjustified, I could understand his concern with certain SOLO members' condemnations of particularly active participants and contributors as "board hijackers." He even (if I recall properly) brought up a quote from you, Mr. Rowlands, which conceded that, though often the direction of the conversation on the boards may not be what the author had intended, this is a fact that should be reconciled with rather than suppressed.

If Mr. Emrich apologizes for the ad hominem accusations and harsh expletives but maintains his disdain for the term, "board hijackers," will this be sufficient for you, Mr. Rowlands?

Further in the discussion, I offered the analogy of a reconciliation scenario between Peikoff and Kelley, to which Mr. Rowlands responded with considerable depth. I concur with Mr. Rowlands that merely saying, "I'm sorry" in a situation such as Peikoff's is not sufficient. I also concur that there is no obligation to accept the apology, as Mr. Kelley's property rights (just as those of Mr. Rowlands) grant them the authority to reject it.

If we compare Mr. Emrich's actions to those of Peikoff, and apply the ideas expressed in Mr. Rowlands' response, will the following from Mr. Emrich be sufficient to readmit him to SOLO?

1. A public list of all the faulty accusations he had posted and a renunciation of such.
2. An apology for his use of harsh language and invocation of the "sanction debate" (already provided).
3. The creation of productive written works that enhance discouse on SOLO and add to the organization in a positive way beyond the above "reparations."  
4. A continued demonstration of politeness over a "trial period," during which his posts will be passed through moderation (how else can he demonstrate tactfulness except by engaging in discourse in this manner?)  

What is my compelling interest in this matter, you may ask (as I have spent considerable time on the subject)? I seek to witness the filosofy of Objectivism rise to global prominence within my lifetime. This will mean employing all the possible intellectual resources that all rational men can gather as a foundation for a massive cultural influx of Objectivism in all arenas. Mr. Emrich, in my estimation, is a man from whom this endeavor will benefit greatly (which means that all of us will benefit greatly in the long run). The excellence of this organization and its new website are beyond all possible doubt, and it is precisely for this reason that I seek to reconcile it with another worthy individual, who is indeed capable of polite cooperation and profound exchange of ideas.

I am
G. Stolyarov II 


Post 1

Friday, March 5, 2004 - 2:39pmSanction this postReply
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Sorry for the triple-post.  There was a bug in the moderator queue.


Post 2

Friday, March 5, 2004 - 3:05pmSanction this postReply
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Stolyarov,

When someone says that another is a "coalition builder", I take that to mean someone who goes out and actual builds coalitions. In the example given, where you convinced Emrich to let you reprint your article, the only one who could be said to be a coalition builder is yourself. You were the one who made the effort to create the coalition. You were the one who made a case for it, using persuasion. You're the one who deserves the credit for it.

Emrich doesn't deserve credit as a coalition builder in that case. Instead of trying to find common ground to work together, he found reasons to reject the work. That you persuaded him to allow you to reprint his article only showed that he was willing in the end to be part of a coalition. But that's different from actually being the builder of a coalition.

Similarly when he posted in response to Diana's article. It was anything but polite. He questioned her contributions to Objectivism. He said her reasons were irrational (not just wrong...irrational). And given that he left in a violent verbal manner, it doesn't at all convey that he's improved his behavior. And even if you don't consider it an attack, it's hardly an instance of coalition building.

I'm at a loss for when he actually did act as a coalition builder. I've seen nothing. That's why I question your opinion of him. He did talk about coalition building, but that's not at all the same as doing it.

Now as for your reconciliation plan, that sounds about right. I'm skeptical, to say the least, that it will ever happen, but I think your proposal would meet the requirements.

I'd like to add that, although he isn't welcome in SOLO now, this isn't an all out war as far as SOLO goes. We don't have any requirements that people stop talking to him or anything like that. We just choose as an organization not to do business with him, and not let him use our site/property.

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Post 3

Friday, March 5, 2004 - 8:24pmSanction this postReply
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This is a paraphrase of a note I sent to Joe, which he urged me to post here:

I'm uneasy with Mr Stolyarov's recipe for reconciliation with Henry. It's too formalistic. I would cringe to see Henry made to itemise all his misdeeds & publicly confess to, & beg forgiveness for, each one - smacks of a Communist Party self-criticism session, or a heresy trial, or the ARI, or some such. And I don't think we should appear to be insisting that everyone be unfailingly polite, either. There's *bound* to be rough-&-tumble, ruffled feathers, etc., from time to time. We don't want to sanitise discussion of all heat. It's just that Henry went way beyond the pale - & kept doing it & doing it & doing it! When anyone chided him for it he scaled even greater heights of frenzy. I suspect he has a bigger problem than he himself realises.

All we need to see is that he actually grasps the nature of his behaviour - gross over-reaction followed by hysterical, obsessive, infantile & gratuitously offensive attacks on entirely innocent & virtuous people. If he can acknowledge & apologise for that, & demonstrate that he's capable of getting a grip - & maintaining it with reasonable consistency - that should be sufficient. But I have grave doubts that he's up to it.

It's sad. Like Mr Stolyarov, I thought Henry was a considerable asset, at least when at his best. But his "best" quickly gave way to some sort of rampaging maniac who couldn't tolerate anyone disagreeing with him. "Fuck you" & "kiss my ass" became his stock-in-trade. Personally, I found it very entertaining, but we can't ask a board full of contributors to tread on egg-shells just so they can avoid setting him off on one of his abuse-sprees. It's simple, really - the boy needs to grow up.

Post 4

Saturday, March 6, 2004 - 9:05pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Rowlands and Mr. Perigo,

Mr. Emrich has learned of the conditions for reconciliation and proceeded to write me an e-mail concerning the list of comments for which he desired an apology. In mid-message, he changed his mind, but requested that I post this to SOLO. In any case, I am but the bearer of bad news.

"Mr. Stolyarov --  here are the statements which most represent the mentality and treatment inflicted on myself and Tremblay, which precipitated my leaving SOLO:
 

Monday, January 26 - 7:30am

SamErica – “This all started when I posted a thread, "How do they do it?" which posed the rhetorical question as to how can some of these young people devote so much of their time to posting so many messages each day? I'm sure we've all asked ourselves this natural question. One expects that young people will be out there trying to carve a life for themselves but their lives seem to be devoted to expressing opinions on absolutely everything, at length. I suggested that there might be many reasons, among them ... being independently wealthy or self-employed (and these are aspersions?). Other possibilities are that they are incarcerated or shut-ins, but more probably they have a pathetic need for attention.”


Friday January 23rd11:31 PM

 

Linz – “Good Lord! So much sound & fury, signifying nothing. This article is complete bollocks. Transhumanism is complete bollocks. Neo-Tech is complete bollocks. Scientology is complete bollocks. The posts here are complete bollocks. "Sentient machines with volitional consciousness" is complete bollocks. Never have so many pseudo-erudite nitwits talked so much crap in so incongruous a forum.

 

On Second thought, Mr. Stolyarov, given the fact that Mr. Hibbert feels we "hijacked the board", and Mr. perigo considers us "so many pseudo-erudite nitwits" talking "so much crap" (simply because he dissagrees that a conversation is relevant or interesting)....maybe I don't WANT to come back to SOLO, and my attempts at benevolence and -- yes -- coalition building -- were misplaced.

 

   At any rate, please copy and post this to SOLO.  it is my last statement to them, and my last attempt and benevolence.  If the membership and leaders persist in the double-standard where I have to apologize for a REACTION -- but they do not have to apologize for the insults which PRECIPITATED that reaction -- then there's something badly wrong with SOLO as a forum, AND as an organization, and I want no part of it."

 

Mr. Stolyarov: I admit it, I am at present powerless to do anything to bridge this conflict. However greatly I would wish for a coalition between SOLO and Mr. Emrich, I must devote my time to other tasks with a greater probability of success.

 

I am

G. Stolyarov II


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