About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Monday, January 6, 2003 - 7:19pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
My apologies for the delay in continuing the Firefly thread -- the real problem was narrowing down the focus to begin a discussion. There's simply so much that deserves attention, so much that is fun!

I finally chose the mystery of the character of Book to begin because I love a mystery and I enjoy trying to piece together the clues.

Book is presented in the season opener (which was aired at the end of the season, go figure :) as a 'shepherd' a kind of cleric. He is mild, unassuming, polite, benevolent, and typically 'principled' as a man of a church would be. He claims to have been at some Abbey, and interested in 'walking the world a while'.

You know, I was just about to list the clues I had found that reveals his true nature ... but decided that I would collect clues from those that have seen some episodes and invite speculation as to who Book might really be. :)

So mean of me, I know. *grin* So, the question is -- what actions in any episode are not in keeping with the representation of Book as a man of the cloth?

I'm feeling almost guilty for presenting this discussion here, but I will say that this is an exercise in applying reason to solve a particular puzzle. Rather than some exercise of logic and reason from some textbook, we are using popular media to learn and exercise our minds. *grin*

Professor Joy :) Class is in session!

Post 1

Tuesday, January 7, 2003 - 4:25amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
*mew* Sorry, Joy, but I can't participate -- I haven't seen the show!

Post 2

Tuesday, January 7, 2003 - 9:06amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Awwwww! I know. :)

To go off on a bit of a tangent here, what I found interesting is the general treatment of religion. Reynolds obviously has no use for religious folk and does not even tolerate Book saying grace at dinner. I enjoyed the fact that despite some disapproving looks from some crew members, Reynolds does not allow Book to say grace. Too often in our culture of multiculturalism, this would have been played out so that the disapproving looks would 'force' Reynolds to acquiesce, to promote harmony and accept diversity and all. LOL!

Religion, while it exists to some degree in the show via Book, isn't treated as if had real importance. Book is given various levels of courtesy in general, but not specific to his being a preacher, except maybe by Kaylee. But they do pick on him occasionally about his beliefs. LOL!

But back to the mystery of Book.

Most shows these days show just about everyone able to pick up arms and be quite successful with them. Having done my share of target practice with handguns and rifles, I KNOW how hard it is to actually hit the target! LOL!

Before they gave it away with his Alliance Identity card, there were clues that made you wonder about Book. In one scene, they were examining some carnage planetside and Book points out that it was done with a very specific rifle (I forgot what he called it) with laser sights and all. Jayne, the resident mercenary comments, 'you do a lot of shooting at the Abbey Preacher' to which Book replies, 'Rabbits.'

Later Book is asked 'Preacher, doesn't the Bible have some very specific things to say about killing?' to which he replies, "Yes, quite specific.' He pauses for a moment before adding, 'But they are fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.' (I'm quoting from memory, but that is the gist)

And indeed, he expertly shoots at the kneecaps ... :)

These are pretty obvious clues .. EXCEPT that the setting presented makes it logical for most people to be knowledgeable about arms. They are out on the edge of civilization and simply expected to be proficient with guns though Book's expertise is beyond proficient, it is expert. And because it is set in the future, it isn't terribly clear how much a Preacher might have changed though they do indicate that like today, killing is mostly frowned upon.

Of course, they haven't delved into what the Abbey is. Could just be a home for Alliance trained militant monks. LOL! And yes, they do bring up the fact that supposedly Book is quite chaste. Jayne has a field day with that bit of knowledge.

Here's an exchange you will appreciate Matt,

Book: "I am a Shepherd. Folks like a man of God."

Mal replies, "No, they don't. Men of God make everyone feel guilty and judged."

I better get back to work!

Joy ;)

Post 3

Tuesday, January 7, 2003 - 12:10pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
*giggle* You're right, I do like it! Here's one in exchange that I'll put into one of the Starbreaker novels:

Bishop Mendecus sipped his wine. Turning a jaundiced eye on Morgan he asked, "What gods are worshipped in your homeland, sir?"

Morgan continued to slice his steak, and savored the meat before answering, "Speaking for myself, sir, I do not worship gods. I kill them."

Post 4

Wednesday, January 8, 2003 - 4:11pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Hi Matt!

LOL! Oh that will ingratiate you with a lot of people.

As I hear it, Joss Whedon is an aetheist or at least an agnostic and so it's interesting that he introduces a sympathetic character like Book. I like Book a lot.

In one episode, titled 'Safe' the entire storyline is about some backbirth world where religion of some kind (very extreme fundamentalists of some kind) is very powerful. It is a very poor world and some villagers actually kidnap Serenity's doctor simply because they need one.

What I liked about the treatment of this topic is that Simon never held back on the idea that what they did was wrong. They told him their tale of woe, saying that their need was so awesome and as he was traveling on a transport vessel, maybe his journey was meant to bring him into their hands and all that crap.

Simon does doctor those there, in answer to his own ethics, but always reminds the woman what this is really all about:

Here are some of Simon's replies:

The village woman, Doralee says:

A place like this might be good for your sister. Quiet. Safe. A place where folks take care of each other.

SIMON
Mmm, yes, seems like a lovely little community of kidnappers.
-=-=-=-

Doralee:
Sometimes life takes you places you weren't expecting to go.

SIMON
"Life" didn't bring us here. Those men did.

-=-=-=-
And my favorite, as they try to burn his sister at the stake:

SIMON
She has done nothing to you! If she dies tonight, it won't be God's will that killed her, it'll be you! Your lunacy! Your ignorance!
-=-=-=

Enjoy :)

Joy :)

Post 5

Wednesday, January 8, 2003 - 5:16pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
OK, Joy, stop it. You're going to get me addicted to Firefly before I've seen a minute's worth of video.

As for my little quote, Joy, I'm hoping that one of the http://www.cc.org,Uptight Christians' Brigade -- preferably that loudmouth Jerry Falwell -- will notice that bit and raise a big brouhaha in the press that'll give me free publicity and make me a household name.

And if you like that, check this out:

"Jesus Christ? I made him famous," Imaginos said as he smiled, his eyes flicking over the lying on the floor as their owners backed away from them, "I can make you gentlemen famous as well if you continue to annoy me."

Post 6

Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 3:19pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Hi Joy!

Another clue to Book's secret is when Jubal
Early said "He's not a Preacher" after having
been knocked out, when Simon was checking his medical status. It does leave a lot of unanswered
questions and wonderings as to where it all would
come out.

Post 7

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 6:57amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I missed this earlier, my apologies! Now I'm so disgusted though as I don't think Firefly will make it back on the air. :( Sci-Fi has passed on it and I don't know what other options are out there for them. Such a shame that such a great show apparently didn't interest enough people though it did better in the ratings than the show which replaced it which serves Fox right! :)

Now we'll never know what was going to happen! We won't know about Book, Inara, Reynolds and if they would ultimately have knocked down the Alliance. Argh!

I think I'll go back to writing my own stuff for entertainment!

Joy :)

Post 8

Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 8:11pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Hi Joy,

Here's hoping the rude people from the previous Firefly thread don't show up here with their vendetta!

I think Book is some kind of undercover agent, but I don't know for what purpose. I think the obvious thing would be that Book is Alliance and probably after Simon and River, or just River. Since it's a Joss show and he spurns cliche, it's probably something else entirely. Besides, I think Book had plenty of opportunity to do his job if that was it.

I thought it very intersting that Jubal Early sounded so sure when he said that Book was no shepherd. He didn't sound like he knew him (maybe he's heard OF him?) They didn't trade words at all and on the surface he had nothing upon which to base his statement.

If he's a bounty hunter like Early, he sure is patient.

On another note, despite the bad news about Sci-fi and UPN (and, from what I've read, CBS,ABC and NBC) not picking it up, Firefly fans are being even more perseverant than ever. Hopefully, someone important will notice.

Favorite Book quote: "If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater."

Favorite Mal quote: (To Jayne) "Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

I plan to get back to my writing, too, although I tend to write fan fiction 90% of the time! Gotta' get to work on my Firefly fic. It's all I have left, apparently. (sob.)

Misti

Post 9

Friday, January 17, 2003 - 9:39amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Hi Misti,

My husband came up with a theory that I find I find myself supporting now that I've seen episodes I missed earlier and of course, watching some episodes several times since Firefly has been on hiatus.

He thinks Book was sent (much like a DEA agent or something) to infiltrate crime in the outer rings. The Alliance has to be trying to extend it's grasp and so is doing undercover work, finding the rings of smugglers like Niska and such so that they can come in for a massive cleanup and take more control. Story wise this makes sense too as Joss had to be thinking of another Reynolds versus Alliance conflict. :)

That Book ran into Simon and River I think are incidential, but his role in scoping out crime in general made him realize that things just aren't what they seem .. that perhaps the Alliance, in its quest to bring order to the rest of space, often overlooks what life is like there, and makes victims and criminals of its own citizens.

He seems sympathetic to River and has shown himself to be knowledgable about her situation but it doesn't seem to be his primary purpose. It is causing him to rethink his entire role in bringing Alliance rule to the far reaches of space though.

Joy :)

Post to this thread


User ID Password or create a free account.