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Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 5:22pmSanction this postReply
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Ronald Reagon was the first president I ever voted for...



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Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 5:24pmSanction this postReply
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Sorry, I misspelled Reagan.



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Post 2

Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 5:56pmSanction this postReply
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I had a hack of a communications professor in college tell us in class that "Reagan was a bumbler, a fool, and an idiot." 

I had this class with many students who weren't even born when Reagan was president, and I was absolutely furious with that teacher.  I made a point of catching up with a few of the youngest students as we walked to our cars after class, just to tell them that the teacher was completely full of shit. Reagan was a great great man, I told them.  He pulled the country out of the Neo-Depression Carter put it in, and was a brilliant statesmen.

This happened several years before Reagan's death.

I am thrilled about this publication, Ted.  It's about time.




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Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 6:24pmSanction this postReply
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David, you are lucky. I was too young to vote for him by two years even in his second election.

Teresa, I always accepted that Reagan might not have been the sharpest of wits, especially after seeing his acting. Granted, you can't become president without having some sort of smarts. But it is indeed refreshing to see how much smarter he really was that so many of his detractors. Robert Graves portrays the Emperor Claudius as someone who was glad to be thought a fool. I have to wonder if Reagan had watched or read I, Claudius.

I strongly recommend watching the Book TV episode linked to in the head article on the 28th at 3:55PM.

Oh, and remember Reagan cupping his ear to avoid answering Sam, Donaldson? Turns out that was indeed an intentional blow-off that Reagan devised on purpose. Good for him!

Ted
(Edited by Ted Keer
on 5/27, 7:52pm)




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Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 10:21pmSanction this postReply
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The Democratic-Liberal-Left has made a cottage industry out of lampooning Republican presidents as stupid. That seems to be their favorite political tool. Rather than address the ideas of their opponents, they prefer to ridicule them as incompetent.

Of course, you know that Ayn Rand hated Reagan and had some choice words for him herself. Here is what she said: "Reagan is a cheap Hollywood ham. Incidentally, watch his old movies; he always played idiotic parts in grade-B-moviews. Of course, playing such parts is not necessarily the fault of the actor; but Reagan fit those movies. He wasn't a victim towering over his material. If you want to see the soul of that man, watch his early movies.

"It is disgusting what he did in this election. The main cause of Ford's defeat is intellectual. But speaking less abstractly, of any one person responsible for it, I' pick Reagan, because of the tone of his campaign and that ugly fight at the Republican Convention -- ugly on the part of Reagan and his associates. Reagan lost the primary, and proceeded to speak of party unit and standing by ford -- and he did not. He refused to campaign in certain states . . . states that Ford lost. He obviously wanted Ford to lose; and the first squeak that comes out of him, the day after the election, is that he doesn't rule out the possibility of running in 1980.

"Ladies and gentlemen, should that monster succeed in 1980 -- and I hope to be dead by then, because I don't want to see such a day -- I damn any of you who vote for him. (I'm speaking of moral damnation.) What Reagan did should not be forgiven, because you will be the victims." (Ayn Rand Answers, p. 70-71)

Elsewhere, she stated, "Reagan, the alleged champion of capitalism, had the nerve to advocate a constitutional amendment forbidding abortion." (Ibid., p. 54) She also said, "If [Reagan] doesn't respect so fundamental a right [the right to abortion], he cannot be a defender of any kind of rights." (Ibid., p. 17)

So, you see what Objectivist heretics you all are, defending RR?! ;-)

- Bill
(Edited by William Dwyer
on 5/27, 10:47pm)




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Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 10:58pmSanction this postReply
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Sorry, I misspelled Reagan.
Well, shame on you! ;-) At least you didn't misspell it "Raygun," which was common among certain intellectual buffoons while he was still president.

- Bill



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Monday, May 28, 2007 - 5:19amSanction this postReply
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Yeah, I know Rand wasn't fond of Reagan, but she died so early in his presidency, I'm thinking she may have changed her mind if she'd lived a few years longer.

Hell, he won me over by his second term! Not an easy feat.




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Post 7

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 8:32amSanction this postReply
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Teresa: "Yeah, I know Rand wasn't fond of Reagan, but she died so early in his presidency, I'm thinking she may have changed her mind if she'd lived a few years longer."

I think this is a totally unfounded speculation.

Ayn Rand hated Reagan largely because of his ties to the Evangelical Right. That didn't change during his presidency.

Moreover, despite Reagan's capitalist rhetoric, his actual record is totally mixed. Suffice it to say that the U.S. budget at the beginning of his presidency was $600 billion. At the end, it hit $1 trillion. And *NO* that wasn't all due to expanding national defense.

Compared to George W. Bush, of course, Reagan might appear superficially to be a wonderful president from an Objectivist viewpoint. In reality, he wasn't. And I'm tired of some "Objectivists" who have a softspot for political conservatives trying to rewrite history or to speculate on what Ayn Rand WOULD have thought.

(Edited by Jon Trager on 5/29, 8:03am)




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Monday, May 28, 2007 - 9:57amSanction this postReply
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Moreover, despite Reagan's capitalist rhetoric, his actual record is totally mixed. Suffice it to say that the U.S. budget at the beginning of his presidency was $600 billion. At the end, it hit $1 trillion. And *NO* that wasn't all due to expanding national defense.

Unfortunately, you, like so many others, attribute to the president what is not of his to deal - it is Congress who makes the laws and passes the budget - the president only proposes, nothing more..




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Monday, May 28, 2007 - 11:06amSanction this postReply
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I think this is a totally unfounded speculation.
Well, duh, Jon. As if it was meant to be anything else.

Ayn Rand hated Reagan largely because of his ties to the Evangelical Right. That didn't change during his presidency.
Hello. Rand died a year after Reagan was elected.  How would you know what changed and what didn't? Or what might have changed and what wouldn't? 
You're free to be a pessimist, but I'll choose optimism every time. Thanks, anyway. 

Like I said, Reagan won me over after his first four years.  Rand never got that chance.

Moreover, despite Reagan's capitalist rhetoric, his actual record is totally mixed. Suffice it to say that the U.S. budget at the beginning of his presidency was $600 billion. At the end, it hit $1 trillion. And *NO* that wasn't all due to expanding national defense.
Without speculating, how much of the increase was attributed to national defense? Probably a big chunk, huh?  I mean, Reagan didn't exactly have a pork barrel reputation, even back then. 

I honestly don't care what Rand thought of Reagan, and what she thought of him doesn't really matter, anyway. I suppose there are those who view Rand as some kind of prophet, but I don't.




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Monday, May 28, 2007 - 11:32amSanction this postReply
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"I honestly don't care what Rand thought of Reagan, and what she thought of him doesn't really matter, anyway. I suppose there are those who view Rand as some kind of prophet, but I don't."

Brava!

T



Post 11

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 1:37pmSanction this postReply
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Though I share AR's approval of abortion on demand, I've often wondered at the magnitude of her reaction to Reagan's stance, and wondered: Did Rand perhaps once have to obtain an abortion herself?

Or it may be that she simply thought a lot about the problem coming up for her, and what she would have to do if it did.




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Post 12

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 1:55pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa, your comments make no sense.

On the one hand, you (wrongly) imply that I think of Rand as a "prophet" and say you don't care what she thought of Reagan. On the other hand, you obviously do care somewhat; otherwise you wouldn't have bothered to make the claim that she may very well have changed her mind about Reagan had she lived throughout his presidency.

The question is: On what basis do you speculate that she might have changed her mind about him???

When Reagan ran for the presidency in 1980, he openly said the Soviet Union was evil and called for abolishing the Depts. of Education and Energy (something no Republican presidential candidate is doing today). And yet AR still strongly opposed him.

Well, RR didn't abolish any departments during his tenure. He expanded the government--defense AND nondefense--while massively increasing the debt. Yes, a "big chunk" was for defense, but a "big chunk" was also for welfare programs such as Social Security (while he cut the income tax rates, he RAISED the Social Security payroll tax in office).

Moreover, he did so while helping Fundamentalist Christians secure their political stronghhold (e.g., appointing Bible thumpers to prominent political offices, writing "Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation," directing US attorneys to prosecute tens of thousands of nonviolent drug users, etc.).

I think it's safe to say there's no rational basis on which to claim AR would have changed her mind about Reagan had she lived. That's just something Objectivists who believe they're allied with political conservatives want to think.
(Edited by Jon Trager
on 5/28, 3:01pm)




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Post 13

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 2:11pmSanction this postReply
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On the one hand, you (wrongly) imply that I think of Rand as a "prophet" and say you don't care what she thought of Reagan.
No, I didn't imply you thought this, but if the shoe fits...

The question is: On WHAT BASIS do you speculate that she might have changed her mind about him???
Yeah, you're right. There's simply no freaking way Rand would ever have thought better of Reagan, as Reagan could never ever have been the Galt she looked for all of her life.  If a leader hadn't the slightest hint of Galtness, he was rejected, as Reagan was.  Come to think of it, there isn't anyone Rand truely admired that I can think of, other than perhaps Frank Lloyd Wright.

I can't think of a single person who actually lived up to her expectations. Not even Peikoff, whom I understand Rand treated like crap.

 Happy now?

If anyone can point me to some glowing, enduring evaluation of anyone by Rand, I would be very interested in that.

Thanks.





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Post 14

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 2:45pmSanction this postReply
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Reagan's flaws are numerous, and should be openly admitted. His backing the 27th Amendment banning flag burning in 1983 should have been the first sign that something was amiss. Then with the "Niggers, Fags & Beggars Act" of 1984, where Reagan had the homeless, drug-users and AIDS carriers rounded up and exiled to the Aleutians - without trial! - he confirmed his status as a tyrant. Of course, his 1986 assassination of 4 Supreme Court Justices and his subsequent introduction of the death penalty for abortionists, and his 1987 Presidential Directive #347602 (known as "The Kingdom, the Power and the Glory Initiative") establishing Episcopalianism as the national church and exiling all non-converting Jews and Papists was the last straw.

We all too easily forget the sacrifices of the heroes of '88: Dukakis, who, against all fashion advice, rode on that tank; Ted Kennedy who let his wife drown in a creek rather than betray the cause; Gary Hartpence, who dared Fox News to follow him and prove that he was sleeping with the enemy; and last, but not least, J.F.Kerry who voted for Reagan's evangelical program, before he voted against it. Let us all pray that Objectivists remember their true allies - Hillarycare Clinton, John Malpractice Edwards and Barak bin Laden Obama Osama Balsmic Vinegar...

Oh, let's just have a drink.

Ted

(Edited by Ted Keer
on 5/28, 7:48pm)




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Monday, May 28, 2007 - 4:13pmSanction this postReply
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Though I share AR's approval of abortion on demand, I've often wondered at the magnitude of her reaction to Reagan's stance, and wondered: Did Rand perhaps once have to obtain an abortion herself?

Shades of Kay Nolte Smith's Elegy for aSoprano......




Post 16

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 4:33pmSanction this postReply
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LMAO, Ted.

Let us all pray that Objectivists remember their true allies - Hillarycare Clinton, John Malpractice Edwards and Barak bin Laden Obama Osama Balsmic Vinegar...

Oh, let's just have a drink.


Priceless.




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Monday, May 28, 2007 - 8:21pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa, that's your response to my question? Seriously? Okay.

Ted, you'd be wise to remember this piece of advice: The enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend.

I don't think any Objectivist, including myself, has ever defended any of the Leftists you mentioned. So I'm not sure what your last diatribe was intended to show, other than you're not a professional comedy writer. Regardless, that doesn't logically make Reagan or his ilk our allies.

Sorry if my pointing out objective facts about Reagan got in the way of your fantasy, guys. But there's no rational basis to think AR would have changed her mind about him. He lived up to her expectations.



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Monday, May 28, 2007 - 10:11pmSanction this postReply
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Though I share AR's approval of abortion on demand, I've often wondered at the magnitude of her reaction to Reagan's stance, and wondered: Did Rand perhaps once have to obtain an abortion herself?
Rand did not approve of "abortion on demand," at least not in the sense in which that phrase is normally understood. "Abortion on demand" is a collectivist/feminist catch-phrase that refers to the right of a woman to an abortion paid for by the state. It is argued that poor women who can't afford an abortion are entitled to receive one "on demand," at taxpayers' expense. Rand certainly did not agree with that.

- Bill



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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 5:44amSanction this postReply
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Right.



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