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Friday, May 1, 2009 - 7:21pmSanction this postReply
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Misplaced optimism.  But what can you expect from a dictator hell bent on a socialistic utopia?


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Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 8:24amSanction this postReply
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I think it was on OL there was a comment about the Treasury refusing to allow the bailout money to be repayed.  So, I googled that.


Monday, April 20, 2009

US puts conditions on bailout repayments

The Financial Times reports that the US will put conditions on TARP bailout repayments from banks who say they are ready to pay back the government.

"Strong banks will be allowed to repay bail-out funds they received from the US government but only if such a move passes a test to determine whether it is in the national economic interest, a senior administration official has told the Financial Times.
http://financetrends.blogspot.com/2009/04/us-conditions-on-bailout-repayments.html



Leftwing blog comments support the facts

Banks Returning Bailout Money Kvetch About Repayment Terms

by Paul Kiel, ProPublica - April 13, 2009 12:17 pm EDT
Six banks so far have returned money to the Treasury Department, and despite all being healthy enough to afford repayment, they've tended to be a pretty cross lot. Treasury and Congress changed the rules on them, they say [1], adding new executive compensation limits and threatening tighter restrictions. And then there's the oft-repeated refrain that banks that have taken the money have been painted with the bailout brush when they got the money under a program that was supposed to be for "healthy" banks.
But for vitriol, the CEO of West Virginia's Centra Financial Holdings takes the cake. Douglas Leech, who also founded the private bank, told the New York Times [2], "What they did is wrong and fundamentally un-American."
http://www.propublica.org/article/banks-returning-bailout-money-kvetch-about-repayment-terms-413


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123879833094588163.html
  • OPINION
  • APRIL 4, 2009
  • Obama Wants to Control the Banks

    There's a reason he refuses to accept repayment of TARP money

    Here's a true story first reported by my Fox News colleague Andrew Napolitano (with the names and some details obscured to prevent retaliation). Under the Bush team a prominent and profitable bank, under threat of a damaging public audit, was forced to accept less than $1 billion of TARP money. The government insisted on buying a new class of preferred stock which gave it a tiny, minority position. The money flowed to the bank. Arguably, back then, the Bush administration was acting for purely economic reasons. It wanted to recapitalize the banks to halt a financial panic.
    Fast forward to today, and that same bank is begging to give the money back. The chairman offers to write a check, now, with interest. He's been sitting on the cash for months and has felt the dead hand of government threatening to run his business and dictate pay scales. He sees the writing on the wall and he wants out. But the Obama team says no, since unlike the smaller banks that gave their TARP money back, this bank is far more prominent. The bank has also been threatened with "adverse" consequences if its chairman persists. That's politics talking, not economics.


    Post 2

    Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 12:06pmSanction this postReply
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    Don't you think it's a little hypocritical of Obama to claim banks, like JP Morgan, are making great "sacrifices" to save Chrysler when the TARP money they accepted (foisted or not, they did get it,) more than payed for whatever Chrysler debt they held?

    The hedge fund group got no TARP money, so naturally they were a little pissed about being expected to reduce their bond holdings to .29 on the dollar, when those who did get TARP aren't taking anywhere near that kind of loss, if any.

    I don't believe a single thing Obama says, especially if Granholm parrots it.


    Post 3

    Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 8:08pmSanction this postReply
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    Well, you know, it is an old the banks were always little more than creatures of the Fed, even the best of them was never in an open market.  So, there is more sympathy for them (what little there is at all) as opposed to the investors, the venture capitalists, the hedge funds, who are not so main stream, perhaps as truly entrepreneurial as you can be in such markets.  The hedge funds take their own risks -- that makes them the bad guys.


    Post 4

    Monday, May 4, 2009 - 6:39amSanction this postReply
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    Why exactly should the bank ASK to give the money back? Just write the check, send it certified mail. Make a simple announcement to the press, if felt necessary, saying the money is not needed - thanks, but no thanks.

    The government cannot force them to take it back. I'd tell the bank "less talk, more action - don't just mouth the words, just do it."

    jt




    Post 5

    Monday, May 4, 2009 - 8:47amSanction this postReply
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    Jay, it depends a lot on who you are inside. 

    If you are some kind of lone wolf engineer who is happy to live on $60k in a good year, divorced, gay or never had time for relationships, then, fine.  Stand your gound.  Go to jail.  Have your libertarian friends make a YouTube video about it when you are stuffed into a police car.

    If you are the president of a bank, you didn't get there by standing out... or standing up...  You got there because people liked you, trusted you, learned to depend on you.  And if you put them all out of work with your libertarian ideas, they are going to stop liking you.  And with good reason.

    Bank presidents answer to other people.  They were hired by boards.  Have you ever served on a board?  Have you ever in your life heard rumor of a board taking bold and decisive action that risked the entire enterprise on a single event?   So, bank presidents are not likely to follow your advice.


    Post 6

    Monday, May 4, 2009 - 11:03amSanction this postReply
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    Re;Friends, we have a bonafide state sanctioned scapegoat in America: Wall Street.


    To me, it looks and sounds more like a crony turf war, between K-Street and Wall Street. Bloods to Cripps, "They Did It!"


    Ever since the LTCM fiasco in Sep 1998...


    There is capitalism, and there is capitalism, only, I don't know what you call it when it is all cozied up to the guns of government, and over-run with half is, half isn't creatures like the GSEs, and bailouts so on.

    There is more than beast building capitalism.

    There is carcass carving capitalism, and there is parasitism on the beast.

    And, there is incompetent beast building.

    All of that at some level can be tolerated by healthy beast economies. But when the above dominates actual beast building capitalism, there might be an extended period of living off the carcass of a once beast, as long as it is a big carcass, but that can't fly forever. Which pretty much explains the current disconnect between our winding down economies, the artificial stimulus, and the staring at the scoreboard and betting on the game going on now on Wall Street.

    All of the above is totally dependent on once competent beast building, what is practiced by folks who discipline risk by putting their own sweat equity skin into the game, the folks who guarantee guaranteed ROI wages and non-risk participation in our economies.


    Few fools want to risk actual skin in the current 'free-for-some' game being run by the tribe. No, the result of all the current connected crony 'pump-priming' that is in the works is going to be a resounding demand for ... ever more connected crony pump-priming. Who believes that the current Age of Pull is going to be able to carve the carcass forever?

    Which is why, my guess, Paul Krugman has decidedly stopped talking about 'The Economy,' and is instead giving forth on Specter and Obama's USSC pick and anything but 'The Economy.'

    Even Obama is backpedaling on 'The Economy', trying not to own it.

    I think it's a distraction to blanket defend the recent federal cronyism on Wall Street and call it 'capitalism.'

    There may in fact yet be some beast building capitalists on Wall Street, volunteering to pre-pay the ransomes for their own kidnappings, but ... I can't imagine why, or for how much longer. Gresham's Law is ultimately about good value and bad value, not just coins and currency, and it is working away on all the variants of 'capitalism' that we permit to be lumped together under that monikor.

    When anybody wearing wingtips and making money on Wall Street is referred to as a 'capitalist', then 'capitalists' ultimately get valued at the least common denominator of all that.

    Were there actually any capitalists at FNMA? Or ten years ago, the 'hedge fund heros' at LTCM, when they went crawling to the 'Fed consortium' for their implied back up, if not bailout? Is it really free-market 'capitalists' that are sprinting to the public trough and demanding connected crony subsidy? Or is all of that fascism?

    Free market capitalists eat their losses and learn from them, they don't go running to those with the guns and make cozy deals with their connected crony brethern and find a way to shed their losses on others.

    The Mob does that.

    regards,
    Fred

    Post 7

    Monday, May 4, 2009 - 11:55amSanction this postReply
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    The hedge funds make a convenient scapegoat for Obama, his pals, and union thugs. They would like you to believe hedge funds are simply the playground of a bunch of Wall Street fat cats. On the contrary, hedge funds often invest on behalf of pension funds and endowments.

    Statement From Non-Tarp Lenders of Chrysler
    A Chrysler Creditor Finds Himself Torn

    In Obama's opinion the hedge funds wanting more -- despite still having a loss -- makes them "greedy", but UAW reps wanting more aren't "greedy."

    Many contend the government proposal is strong arm politics favoring the UAW and an attempt to overturn existing bankruptcy rules. They are probably right. A lawyer for the non-Tarp lenders says some in the group have received death threats (link).
     
    I searched for a webpage that had a good priority list of who gets what in a Chapter 11 (reorganization) business bankruptcy. I did not find one, except in very broad terms. If anybody else knows of one, please post the link. Broadly the priority is secured creditors first, then unsecured creditors, and lastly stockholders. "Senior" bonds fit in the first group and subordinated bonds in the second. In the last group preferred shares are prior to common shares. Where lots of creditors rank isn't clear to me.
    1. Employee wages for past work.
    2. Employee benefit plans, e.g. the UAW retiree health plan, which will get 55% of the stock under the government plan.
    3. Earmarked collateral, whether pledged for bonds, bank loans, or derivatives.
    4. Accounts payable to suppliers.

    (Edited by Merlin Jetton on 5/04, 5:01pm)


    Post 8

    Monday, May 4, 2009 - 11:57amSanction this postReply
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    It's not in real estate.

    It's not in banking.

    It's not in railroads or airlines or automobile manufacturing.

    You can still find it in Silicon Valley.
    Here in Ann Arbor, we have some.

    Wherever the future is being made, that's where you need to look.
    SpaceX
    Space Adventures
    Scaled Composites

    SeaMagine
    Hawks Ocean Technologies

    ... but microrobots for arterial probing are 20-year old experiments...
    Even combination locks on chips are 10 years old and still the stuff of Sandia Labs and the University of Michgian -- solutions without problems, locked safely away from commercial application.

    See, with the future, you never know where it will come from.

    Sig0847.jpg Man Who Sold the Moon image by jgmallard       Screencap   First edition cover

    (Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 5/04, 12:03pm)


    Post 9

    Monday, May 4, 2009 - 3:35pmSanction this postReply
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    Michael,

    I am quite aware of the issues dogging these bankers. My point is that they can ignore the intimidation - if they really want to. Bellyaching about wanting to give the money back, but fearing reprisal, is a feint excuse. Board, President, CEO, stockholders... BS. Have just one voice. Then say what they intend. Saying one thing, knowing that they are gong to do another, is just mealy-mouthed.

    jt

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