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Post 40

Monday, November 26, 2007 - 8:50pmSanction this postReply
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This one just came back up from the archives. It's a classic, and highly relevant, especially in light of the Ron Paul candidacy. So it gets my bump here.

Post 41

Friday, September 21, 2012 - 3:37amSanction this postReply
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Libertarianism
What Everyone Needs to Know
Jason Brennan (Oxford 2012)

"Clear, concise, and incisively written, this volume explains a vitally important
philosophy in American history---and a potent force in contemporary politics."

Post 42

Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 10:22amSanction this postReply
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As Joseph pointed, out, the fundamental problem with (capital-L) political Libertarianism is the failure of Ls themselves to establish their philosophical context. That may not be necessary.

The primary message of Libertarianism is not the Non-Initiation of Force. Most of the ones I know would say that if you suffer a home invasion, shoot first and ask questions later. You do not need to question the motives of the invader. Maybe they were just hapless buglars who thought you were not at home. They intend you no harm. They just want to leave. They even will not take your TV set after all. You do not need to have that conversation. Most libertarians would say to just open fire while you can. It remains true that the hapless burglar who intends only to take your goods, and wants never to meet you, has initiated force and brings retaliation. NIOF is a principle, but it rests on other principles. Libertarians know that.

Citing "famous libertarians" who said this or that and are clearly wrong (if not idiots) says nothing about the validity of the agenda of the political movement.

The primary message of political Libertarianism is the sovereignty of the individual.

Their message stands in direct opposition to statism, collectivism, and the general govern-mentality of those who would control your wallet, your body, and your mind.

That said, I agree that if you goto a Tea Party and start a philosophical discussion on epistemology, you will be sadly disappointed to discover that many of them attempt to promote their preferred concepts without any understanding of what a concept is. But they do not need to.

They can even believe in God or be Wiccans.

It is important, though, to have the very discussions that political Libertarianism raises about the proper purpose of government, the rightful roles of government, and the extent to which individuals surrender sovereignty (if at all) in order to live in society.



(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 9/22, 10:35am)


Post 43

Monday, September 24, 2012 - 10:20pmSanction this postReply
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Allow me to suggest a specific difference: rights. I believe that it is a fair generalization that libertarians say that we have inalienable, natural rights. Most might say that they are God-given rights. Less religious or unreligious libertarians would say that by your nature as a human being, you need rights to live in society. (Alone on an island, you do not need rights. You cannot violate your own.) But no one can take your rights away in a metaphysical sense. They can deny you the practice of them or violate them, but the violation does not negate them. Indeed, violating some rights only calls for you to stand on the more (or most?) basic right to self-defense.

Objectivism is not a natural rights philosophy. Objectivists do not believe that rights are intrinsic, that you possess them automatically, or that rights must never be violated.
From a similar discussion about this book on MSK's OL.

Roger Bissell
Michael E. Marotta... Discussing the errors of intrinsicisim, Peikoff creates a scenario in which you are swimming in the ocean and you come upon a desert island and the owner will not let you come up. In that case, says Peikoff, when it is a matter of your life or his right, then "it's finished as the end of rights; the context is gone, and you kill him before he kills you." (page189)

That raises disturbing questions about the virtue of selfishness in a society based on man's rights. ...


Michael, rights are ~not~ intrinsic ...
My understanding of rights is that they apply to environments in which survival alternatives are available that do not require initiating force against another. That's the vast majority of situations in which humans find themselves. Let's call these situations in which people can co-exist without initiating force "viable social contexts" or simply "social contexts." In such a context, you are morally obliged to respect each person as an end in himself, someone you must deal with through persuasion and trade.

On the other hand, if a situation arises where there is ~no~ non-coercive survival alternative -- such as Peikoff's desert island scenario, where the newcomer is denied access to his only means of survival -- then neither is there any moral obligation to refrain from initiating force. This may sound alarming, but ...


And we have had similar discussions here. I only point out that it is another philosophical difference between Libertarians and Objectivists.

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