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Post 20

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 4:57amSanction this postReply
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I am sorry for the bad wording, but the post was made in a hurry. I am sometimes a bit lax with the overall grammar, because German is a language with laxer rules in itself.

In Germany we have a tighter school system, having almost only state-schools (97 %). The other private schools are either managed by a few individuals or by a religious group (some even have an elitist view, such as Salem).
However, the troublesome element in the general school system I explained in my post above and wasn't exactly your question, so I will turn on the private schools for explanation of my fears.

I have visited some of those schools in my area to look at what they teach and it is horrible. Instead of having calculus or even reading and writing, those students are taught to plant flower and play in the woods. I mean, nothing bad about playful elements in education, but they may choose to do it all day if they like. This might be ok in the Kindergarden, but not in the Forth grade or the high school.
When they are 12, a independent test has shown that they can barely read nor calculate or even form a rational objective argument.
I grant that not many children attend those schools, roughly about 12-25 per school (mostly because those school are a result of the 69er anti-authoritarianism or a new hip of old fashioned faith-abiding. They fear the loss of traditional Christian values and the bible and thus react to preserve them disregarding any science alltogether)
Those 25 individuals will have a hard and unfullfilling life if they choose to live on their own, because they have acquired no skills that could be helpful to their future lives. They will have wasted their lives without the chance to rreason against the indoctrination of their parents.
It's this fear I have against Creationism and alternative religious schools in general.
Of course, many Christian universities (like in the city of Freiburg) are very famous for having sponsored famous thinkers  in German history. And still today, many graduates of theology aren't hardliners as one might suspect.
So, your argument is valid, too.

I think this is the most important and hardest choice to be taken in every education system throughout the world.
How much privatisation can be done without giving innocent lives to illiteracy in today's world.

This might be of interest to all of you. It is an essay about Literacy and Private Education in Great Britain before comprehensive schools came up.

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?control=1425


Post 21

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 6:30amSanction this postReply
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"From the context provided in the movie, I don't really know what Violet's mom would have preferred. In a real situation the babysitter should be informed of how to deal with a kid that characteristically acts in certain bad ways.

t could work even if they both weren't good, but it would depend on the range of bad behavior and whether the other boy could implement similar constraints the parents do. Obviously the parents should give him the authority to do so if they leave him in charge."

This is exactly JJ's point.





"On the contrary, I argued that Violet did have implied authorization to deal with Dash."

The fact that it's "implied authorization" instead of "expressed authorization" is the problem. The mother did not tell Violet what methods Violet had the authority to employ to make Dash behave.

I can see so many "real life" implications from babysitting, to school, to the world of work.

Post 22

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 6:31amSanction this postReply
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I agree with David.

Post 23

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 1:45pmSanction this postReply
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The fact that it's "implied authorization" instead of "expressed authorization" is the problem. The mother did not tell Violet what methods Violet had the authority to employ to make Dash behave.
Let's just say that I'm glad you didn't write the script. Making sure you got all your pet points across sure would make for a tedious movie.

Maybe it's time for you to re-read "The Romantic Manifesto".


Post 24

Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 1:10pmSanction this postReply
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JJ,

This popped up as a random article. What a pleasant little piece.

I fully agree with you on this thought:
Ultimately, the injustice is that a person should never be held accountable for actions of someone else's.
That's the core of the "social responsibility" moral charge.

I am a person who likes to look at things from unusual angles, so I loved the fact that you found this thought in a concrete example from a movie about comic book heroes - and yes, even about babysitting (of course, a not so "baby" baby).

I hope more people read this. Authority is not an issue widely discussed in Objectivism. Yet, as you show just through the example of schoolteachers, it affects the everyday affairs of most everybody.

Michael


Post 25

Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 5:40pmSanction this postReply
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Actually, I think the film makers agree with JJ. The joke (and it immediately gets a laugh) is that giving her authority, as parents are won't to do, is often not enough, especially with a little brother like Dash. There is a lot of subtle satire of family foibles in The Incredibles, and I think this is a jab at the all-too-familiar impossible situation parents often put siblings in regarding authority since siblings typically don't recognize such authority. So this is a little illustration of the futility of parental delegation and the inherent unfairness of the impossible situation parents create when they try to solve things in this way.

Post 26

Monday, November 21, 2005 - 11:42pmSanction this postReply
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MSK,

I'm glad you liked it.

JJ


Post 27

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 1:07amSanction this postReply
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JJ:
   Well clarified point about 'accountability' (or rather, 'blameablility') and 'responsibility'; and the illustration via The Incredibles scene re Violet, Dash and Mom was right on! But...methinks a bit more...clarification re this problem-point is called for.

   If I may add: --> delegation of supposed 'authority' is unfortunately too often done in terms (nowadays, more and more obviously) of OSTENSIBLE (ie: 'form' [going through the motions/verbalizations], and not 'substance' [believable 'backup' authority]) power/penalty-threat, with no ACTUAL power-of-the-latter transferred to the OSTENSIBLE temp-authority. This pretend-act, obvious to the one 'powered-over' lets them know who's got the ACTUAL power of 'autonomy'. --- Hence, a brat-wannabee can walk all over a baby-sitter, just as a class mob-leader can crush a teacher-substitute. --- Then there's contemporary parents and their in-a-bad-mood kids in Toys-R-Us.

   Methinks this scene in the movie was intended to be noticed specifically as you pointed out it's worth in paying attention to.

LLAP
J:D


Post 28

Sunday, January 1, 2006 - 12:24pmSanction this postReply
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I wish I could sanction this article again, as I find to to be an especially charming one.

Michael


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Post 29

Monday, January 2, 2006 - 5:01pmSanction this postReply
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When I was a kid my mom made me responsible for my unruly sister's actions. When I took door #2 (shrug the responsibility), I would be called selfish. Fond memories... fortunately, mom wasn't stupid and eventually caught to the fact that my little sis simply doesn't listen to anyone, period. It must run in the family... ;)

Sadly, I see this method all over the workplace... and even in some groupwork at school.

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