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Post 20

Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 6:09pmSanction this postReply
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"I uncovered a scandal involving the local Sopranos, and was 'taken out' [by a frame-up]..."

This is way off topic, but stories like this and of course the many news stories about identity theft and the like should be a heads up that many of us are more vulnerable than we should be to even casual, physically non-violent assaults. To be sure, most people get along fine most of the time; it's when there's a sudden crisis and time is short that you wish you had been better protected. I don't mean by bearing arms (although that may be advisable too); I mean by making it a lot harder for people who don't know you well to target you at all. The book to read is How to Be Invisible. I say more about it on the linked page.

(Edited by David M. Brown on 5/29, 6:11pm)


Post 21

Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 6:52pmSanction this postReply
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I can corroborate David Brown's recommendation of How To Be Invisible as a worthwhile read.  While I consider the author's dislike of home ownership to be without merit, the book's virtues outweigh its vices.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 5/29, 7:15pm)


Post 22

Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 9:08pmSanction this postReply
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Adam: "Bad premises need to be kept in context, and in the context of normal life premises matter much less than character and sense of life. But in times when character and sense of life are not enough, and principles are called on - in times of crisis and hardship - people do revert to their explicit premises, and act accordingly."

I quite agree. And I don't see this as a "quibble" with my point. It was the character of your rabbi friend, as well, perhaps, as his premises, that was sorely deficient. Presumably, it was fear that kept him away from you when you most needed friends, and the capitulation to fear is a matter of character.

Barbara

Post 23

Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 9:57pmSanction this postReply
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Barbara,

Your interpretation is plausible - but of cause there is no way to test those aspects of character that come into play under stress, until the crisis happens. One function of faith is to rationalize failures of character. In retrospect, I should have considered the possibility that adherence to supernatural and collectivist ideations can be, in people intelligent enough to know better, a defense mechanism (the writer you were responding to called it a "safe zone") for character defects. A man who looks for perfection in an external god, instead of within himself, may be one who already looked within, and found himself wanting.

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Post 24

Monday, May 30, 2005 - 12:17amSanction this postReply
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Barbara,

I had already read this article (including the entire thread it came from - I looked it up), but I am glad it was posted again. This prompted me to read it once more.

I especially identify with this quote:
I have found that people often don't know how to create happy lives for themselves, although they struggle to do so. I have found that most people are relatively decent, and have little filth in their lives to roll around in.
I can't think of a better starting mindset for doing most anything with somebody you don't know well. Realistic and benevolent.

How can anybody feel lonely when you engage others that way as a habit? Even when no one like that is around, only bad folks, just knowing these others exist makes it a joy to belong to the human species.

But there are many books that can be (and are) written on how lots of people don't know how to create a happy life, but struggle for it nonetheless. And oodles to be learned from carefully observing it.

Michael


Post 25

Monday, May 30, 2005 - 1:28amSanction this postReply
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>While I consider the author's dislike of home ownership to be without merit, the book's virtues outweigh its vices.

I don't want to stay off topic, but while I corroborate Luke's corroboration of my recommendation of How To Be Invisible, the author J.J. Luna doesn't "dislike" home ownership. In fact he currently owns a home. What he suggests is that many people are better off financially and will find it easier to maintain privacy if they rent. He reports that for many years he rented, until he could afford to buy a house outright (which is what he recommends for home ownership--no mortgage). So let's be optimistically benevolent about the author's arguments here...hey, I'm back on topic!! (Alas, no vices in the book at all...no booze, sex...well, maybe another book will have them.)


Post 26

Monday, May 30, 2005 - 3:28pmSanction this postReply
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David Baker asked:

I was wondering what happened to Orion,Jeanine and especially George.e.Cordero?
Do they now post under different pseudonymns?
-Orion left after he was much taken to task for his support of the genocidal murder of ALL muslims. (yes all and indescriminately at that)
-Jeanine left after having a row with George Cordero. She has a discussion site someplace. If you look through the last threads she posted in you can probably find a link that someone added.
-I'm not sure where George is.......


Ethan


Post 27

Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 10:04pmSanction this postReply
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People that try to placate mystical entities are like that.
I hope he sacrificed a goat, burned a candle, or did some other ritual to convince this entity to intercede on your behalf.

Post 28

Thursday, June 2, 2005 - 5:53amSanction this postReply
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David Brown wrote:
I don't want to stay off topic, but while I corroborate Luke's corroboration of my recommendation of How To Be Invisible, the author J.J. Luna doesn't "dislike" home ownership. In fact he currently owns a home. What he suggests is that many people are better off financially and will find it easier to maintain privacy if they rent. He reports that for many years he rented, until he could afford to buy a house outright (which is what he recommends for home ownership--no mortgage). So let's be optimistically benevolent about the author's arguments here.
I do not want to send this thread off-topic again, but I do want to encourage people to decide for themselves the trade between privacy and wealth building involved here.  I do not think Luna's argument against a mortgage makes financial sense in most cases.  In other words, dollar for dollar, a person will usually get more total value from owning than from renting, even with a mortgage.  Each individual will need to perform his own analysis to see if this general principle applies to his own situation.  Ownership will, of course, make privacy and its corollary, mobility, a bigger challenge.


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Post 29

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 2:36pmSanction this postReply
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You know, sometimes this random article feature has perfect timing.  Given the shades of cynicism I've been feeling lately, I've taken some time to introspect and examine the roots of my negativity.

I realized that rather than focusing on the pursuit of my own happiness, I was becoming more and more disappointed by those who weren't, and was allowing it to affect my state of mind.  I got fed up with people who utterly lack self-awareness, and walk through life oblivious to themselves.  I tired of women who demanded to be treated as equals without understanding why such treatment is deserved -- so much so that I was repulsed by the very thought of sharing a gender with them.  I felt bitter toward people who did not recognize my value as I thought they should.

What prompted a 180-degree shift in my attitude, however, was realizing that in the end, those people have nothing to do with me -- it is my approach and reaction to such people that matters.  And the words I have said on this forum before resounded in my head:  My life, my terms.    

I refuse to be a cynic.  My life is too glorious and important to me to waste energy on such an irrelevant state of mind.  Thank you, Barbara, for supplying the closing thought to that poignant moment of clarity.


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Post 30

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 3:12pmSanction this postReply
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Jennier: " I got fed up with people who utterly lack self-awareness, and walk through life oblivious to themselves.  I tired of women who demanded to be treated as equals without understanding why such treatment is deserved -- so much so that I was repulsed by the very thought of sharing a gender with them.  I felt bitter toward people who did not recognize my value as I thought they should.

"What prompted a 180-degree shift in my attitude, however, was realizing that in the end, those people have nothing to do with me -- it is my approach and reaction to such people that matters."

May I suggest the next step in your battle against cynicism? You will have solved the problem when you say, instead of the above,

"I am so fortunate to have found, on Solo and elsewhere, people who are self-aware, women who have earned the right to be treated as equals, individuals who recognize and appreciate my value. These are the people who have everything to do with me; they enrich my life and I rejoice in their existence."

Barbara

Post 31

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 3:28pmSanction this postReply
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"I am so fortunate to have found, on Solo and elsewhere, people who are self-aware, women who have earned the right to be treated as equals, individuals who recognize and appreciate my value. These are the people who have everything to do with me; they enrich my life and I rejoice in their existence."

A lot of Objectivist-types place a minimal value on their friends and family. Barbara's thought here is proof that we need other people in our lives if we are to live well. Don't forget, Jennifer, that there are good people out there. We just have to find them (not easy!) and then give them good reason to like us (even harder!).


Post 32

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 3:30pmSanction this postReply
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Barbara, you are of course correct.  How silly of me not to include such a statement (it was implied).

Even better are the SOLOists of the same spirit I have been able to meet in person, some of whom have become soulmates and cherished friends.  Were it not for this wonderful place, I might never have found them. 

One in particular I would like to recognize is Kelly Elmore, who, aside from being the woman most like me I have ever found, showed me that such a spirit need not be clouded by unhappiness.  She is, in a word, radiant.  In parting from her company my eyes were welled with tears.

And as for you, young lady, we have a date in August, because I am coming to California for meetings.  :)  I would like to thank you in person for being another shining example of what a woman can and should be.

Warmest regards,
Jennifer 


Post 33

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 4:00pmSanction this postReply
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Regina Dildo—you are *not* to give That Woman any more of those bloody macaroons, just so she can trumpet & lord them over the rest of us.

Linz

Actually, I *do* like to see the young folk enjoying themselves. :-)

Post 34

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 5:02pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you so much, Jennifer! I have spent so much of my life with people either thinking I am flighty (happy) or too serious (thinking) or harsh (judgmental). It is great to be seen for what I am and appreciated for all the things I like about myself. What a weekend we had! Having a new friend is a glorious thing. I'm thinking of you often.

Kelly

Post 35

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 8:19pmSanction this postReply
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It is great to be seen for what I am and appreciated for all the things I like about myself. What a weekend we had! Having a new friend is a glorious thing. I'm thinking of you often.

To paraphrase another woman we admire:  You have just said everything I wanted to say to you. 

:)


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Post 36

Sunday, June 5, 2005 - 7:28pmSanction this postReply
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And Linz, just for That Comment, I'm making Her Majesty a double batch.

:P


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Post 37

Monday, June 6, 2005 - 9:30pmSanction this postReply
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A very great many people have a mixture of both good and bad premises.  By and large, the more closely their ideas and principles are tied to people immediately around them and to their direct efforts to live their lives, these ideas and principles tend to be good, at least in the more civilized societies.  Most people want to treat the people they know decently and they generally do feel an obligation to earn their values in trades with those they know.  The breakdown tends to come when they consider ideas put into operation through several layers of intermediate groups of people.  For instance, we know few people who will rob us, but many more people who will encourage a government to rob us, usually in the name of the need of others than themselves.  Most people are ashamed to plead directly to their friends for financial help, but some may eagerly take a hand-out from the government and others of them are quick to assume that while they would not want a hand-out, others would.  It is easy to despair of the failure of people to live up to their own very local level principles when they deal with people at a distance.  This discrepancy suggests that they are more confused than evil in intent, however.

Think of the people you know who believe in God, believe that everyone has a right to food and shelter, believe that sex is a necessary evil, believe homosexuals are evil, think that only government can educate our children, believe that heroism is the equivalent of self-sacrifice, and many other very wrong things.  Yet, many of these people seem to behave very rationally as co-workers or as neighbors.  Somehow, they know not to apply most of their wrong ideas to very many of the practical tasks of life. As co-workers, they may work hard and intelligently.  They may bring skills and experience to the job that we do not have.  As neighbors, they take in our child when she is locked out and let her call us at work.  They run to stop the bully from beating up the younger children or carry a hurt child home to you.  They watch over your home when you are gone and may feed your cat.  They will loan you a ladder.  Generally, if you talk to them, you can find that there are some things most anyone knows that you do not know.  Aren't these the same people who first defeated Hitler and then faced down Communism around the world?

It makes sense to look for the good in people and to maximize your interactions with them in those compartments of their lives in which they are good.  Of course, we often need to walk a different path on many issues, but it is more bearable to live with others, as we generally must, when we evaluate them in the full context of their lives.  While they may do many things other than we would, they still have values to offer us.  Among other things, consider the rapid progress in just the last 200 years in clothing, housing, transportation, medicine, materials, electronics, communication, clean water and sewage systems, garbage disposal, electric power, gas distribution, the internet, retail sales, warehousing, science, and a host of other areas of human endeavor.  Those very same neighbors and people much like them, who cause us so much despair, have played a role in producing this progress.  We should keep the context of this contribution to modern civilization in mind.

Of course, it would be delightful to have SOLOists living next door and as co-workers!  But, if it were not for some of the other often wrong-headed individuals around us, we would not be in contact via SOLO HQ.  We might be riding across country on horseback to visit one another.  No, no we would not.  We would not even know where each other was.  Context, context is everything when evaluating such complex issues.


Post 38

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 10:30amSanction this postReply
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Charles, thanks for another great post. You often provide a lot of detail and a richness of examples rather than just a few floating principles.

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Post 39

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 7:24pmSanction this postReply
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Philip, thanks for your kind comment.  I admit that I tend toward indulging myself when I start writing about a topic.  I get carried away with enthusiasm and not infrequently worry that I am overdoing it.  While I believe Objectivism is important to living well, life is more than philosophy.  One of the things that I enjoy at SOLO HQ is that so many people understand that.

In fact, my comment went so long that I did not add that I enjoyed reading Barbara Branden's article and simply wanted to add a few thoughts.

I also did not add that I arrived at this tread after fully sharing in a giddy exchange with Jennifer under a topic from which we had taken quite a side-track.  The value of meeting people with delightful senses of life as well as good principles, people like Jennifer and Kelly, was our side topic.  It is amazing how wonderful it is to find and talk with the kind of people who show up here.  It lifts my spirits everyday.


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