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Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 3:00amSanction this postReply
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The cleaner and barber and coffee house owner — they all have a stake in the gym’s continued presence.
If the gym is so valuable to them, why don't they simply buy it? 

If the business does not have sufficient value to remain viable, even to its highest value owners, then there is no justification for its continued existence anyway.


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Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 10:57amSanction this postReply
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Yes, which is part of my point, although if the owner's mother-in-law wanted to subsidize it, no one ought to prevent that either!

Post 2

Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 3:09pmSanction this postReply
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Could this stakeholder movement be considered the latest stage in "evolutionary and revolutionary Hooverism?"

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Monday, October 30 - 2:36amSanction this postReply
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2.2.1 Project Stakeholders

Stakeholders include all members of the project team as well as all interested entities that are internal or external to the organization. The project team identifies internal and external, positive and negative, and performing and advising stakeholders in order to determine the project requirements and the expectations of all parties involved. The project manager should manage the influences of these various stakeholders in relation to the project requirements to ensure a successful outcome.

Project Management Institute. A Guide to the Project Management Body of Knowledge ( PMBOK® Guide )—Fifth Edition (ENGLISH) (Kindle Locations 1044-1048). Project Management Institute. Kindle Edition.



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Post 4

Monday, October 30 - 10:21amSanction this postReply
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Professor Machan was discussing a use of stakeholder theory to force political changes.  That is just an attempt to implement altruism/collectivism (all dressed up as if were a sociological/ethical theory) - to justified using force to achieve an elite's social end. 

 

I can't say how much I miss Tibor Machan and his clarity of thought.  He was such a great loss to us all.

---------------------

 

I had to seek out stakeholders.... but as a private citizen who could not (and would not use force).  I just used the concept of 'Stakeholder' to have successful projects.

 

For the projects I managed, my rule of thumb was to treat a person (or a group) as a 'Stakeholder' if

  1.) they could materially aid the sucess of the project and would be affected by it (in which case I wanted to help them make a contribution), or

  2.) if, at some point in the development or rollout, they could hurt  the project's success - these last were the most important; they were the ones I searched more carefully for; they were the ones I worked to get a positive agreement with. 

 

The project context  that connected stateholders to the project, from my view, were always either:

 1.) lines of authority (does the project change anyones authority or require their authority),

 2.) actors in the different procedures (does the project change their day to day procedures), and

 3.) money (sometimes there are remote budget considerations that cross department line - e.d., will your project's success reduce some other departments personnel needs?). 

 

Here is an example of a project that was a complete success... till a month after it was rolled out: I didn't include truck drivers as stakeholders in a project that used mobile mapping devices.  I thought I was seeing nothing but benefits for them and that they would welcome it.  Had I spent more time with the drivers and gained their confidence, I'd have learned that they saw the mobile device as taking away some of their authority in route decisions.  They effectively sabotaged the product after it was rolled out.  I could have prevented that. 

 

I was then, and am now, suspicious of attempts to declare someone a stakeholder as an act of giving authority to a group that should NOT have that authority.  On occasions their are political or politically correct urges behind the attempt to include some group as 'stakeholders'.  In one place where I rolled out projects, I was forced to include the union as a stakeholder even where they should not have been.  In the end, most of those projects worked when the union was treated as if it was important enough to be included.  I couldn't get a senior official who was willing to keep the union in hand when what they were doing was just political.  

 

Stakeholder analysis is a murky business, often a sham and nonsense, but those responsible for sheparding a project to success have no choice but to look carefully for stakeholders and they aren't always obvious or visible at first glance.



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Post 5

Monday, October 30 - 2:53pmSanction this postReply
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Steve, it is refreshing to encounter another project manager in a forum like this one.

 

At OCON 2011, Peter Schwartz gave a talk called "Our Culture of 'Package-Dealing'" in which he made sweeping condemnations of various anti-concepts.  I was a little taken aback that he included "stakeholders" since the MBA program I was just completing had used that term for the duration.  Tibor's essay sheds a little more light on its drawbacks.



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Monday, October 30 - 3:57pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Luke.

 

I'm guessing that neither Peter Schwartz nor Tibor Machan had experience as project managers and therefore didn't understand that 'stakeholder' does has a valid meaning.... one that was apparently stolen and abused by the progressives.



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Post 7

Tuesday, October 31 - 4:13amSanction this postReply
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The stakeholder concept is stretched well beyond its legitimate meaning by government and community activists, but some non-owners of a business -- employees, customers, suppliers, financiers -- are integral to the success of a business. 



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Post 8

Sunday, November 5 - 3:50pmSanction this postReply
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To Luke's post #3, I got out of business school a few years ago and they were teaching "stakeholders" in this manner in several classes.  I was a project manager before this and the stakeholder concept in this form is too broad and unappealing.

 

Reminds me of this part in The Fountainhead:

 

In the spring of 1936 a western city completed plans for a World’s Fair to be held next year, an international exposition to be known as “The March of the Centuries.”  The committee of distinguished civic leaders in charge of the project chose a council of the country’s best architects to design the fair. The civic leaders wished to be conspicuously progressive. Howard Roark was one of the eight architects chosen.
When he received the invitation, Roark appeared before the committee and explained that he would be glad to design the fair—alone.

“But you can’t be serious, Mr. Roark,” the chairman declared. “After all, with a stupendous undertaking of this nature, we want the best that can be had. I mean, two heads are better than one, you know, and eight heads ... why, you can see for yourself—the best talents of the country, the brightest names—you know, friendly consultation, co-operation and collaboration—you know what makes great achievements.”
“I do.”
“Then you realize ...”
“If you want me, you’ll have to let me do it all, alone. I don’t work with councils.”
“You wish to reject an opportunity like this, a spot in history, a chance of world fame, practically a chance of immortality ...”
“I don’t work with collectives. I don’t consult, I don’t co-operate, I don’t collaborate.”

 

(Edited by Korben Dallas on 11/05, 3:51pm)



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Post 9

Sunday, November 5 - 5:47pmSanction this postReply
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Tough titty, Howard, you can't always get what you want.

 

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 11/06, 6:00am)



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