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Post 20

Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 4:44pmSanction this postReply
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That is intriguing, Peter. Thanks for the links.  I created a print version with citations, etc., keeping the pagination as close as possible.  The header has the URL, the footer the journal citation.


Marnee Dearman in Post #9
I would be prohibited from contracting out my own security needs.


No you wouldn't.  This is the same old anarcho argument I hear all the time.  I dont understand this point at all.  Even in today's government people can hire private detectives, install security alarm systems, private body guards, and private security guards.  So then, how does this necessarily follow?




Is that "anarcho-argument" as in "anarcho-capitalist" or is that "anarcho" as in "pinko" or "jingo."

Actually, the point does have to be made, because we argue de novo.  Nothing is given.  Objectivism questions everything back to the Law of Identity.  If the government is to have a monopoly on the use of retaliatory force, then government is to have a monopoly on retaliatory force.  That is why Ayn Rand questioned the need for handguns or the "right" to own them. 

There may be some lower threshhold or barrier below which the government cannot go.  In other words, private defense agencies would need to be registered and could not be armed, but you could hire one if you wanted.  A defense agency could never be a party to a suit, except in common law.  In other words, a defense agency could never arrest someone.  That means never detain them. 

Also, we have adjudication businesses now, like www.adr.org, the American Arbitration Agency.  Would they be allowed to exist, if the government has a monopoly on justice?  If they were allowed to exist and if they were licensed as are protection firms, then would be be prohibited from having protection agencies for customers?

The key word here is monopoly.

  • Again, in our mixed-premise mixed economy we have all kinds of things going on as businesses that may or may not be allowed in a truly rational, objective capitalist society. 
  • Similarly, if not for eminent domain, the railroads would not have been built because under strict laissez faire any one landowner could have held up a cross-country line.  (Going around creates a winding snake of a line that cannot allow high speeds necessary for efficiency.)
  • Pollution is one such.  (Businesses won that privilege by pointing to the greater "common good.") 
  • We have had discussions here about public property.  Would there be any "public property" (so-called) that was not ipso facto government property? Or would the government have to rent all of its resources from the private sector?
  • Before recent times, the idea of the military arsenal was that the Army (Navy, etc.) manufactured everything it needed.  Then we went to contractors.  You see how that worked out...

So, yes, I would like to read that some Objectivist of standing and merit admits that in the truly (Objectivist) capitalist society, you can hire your own armed guards and that they can contract with a private arbitration agency.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 1/10, 4:46pm)


Post 21

Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 5:29pmSanction this postReply
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  • Similarly, if not for eminent domain, the railroads would not have been built because under strict laissez faire any one landowner could have held up a cross-country line.  (Going around creates a winding snake of a line that cannot allow high speeds necessary for efficiency.)

  • not true - James Hill built his without EM usage.... granted, tho, not as many would have been built, but the ones which would have been would not have been so corrupt, and would have been laid where profitable, not subsidizable...

  • (Edited by robert malcom on 1/10, 5:29pm)


    Post 22

    Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 7:46pmSanction this postReply
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    Michael,

    I do not believe that I am the kind of Objectivist the admission of which you seek; but for whatever it is worth, I hereby go on record in admitting that "in the truly (Objectivist) capitalist society, you can hire your own armed guards and that they can contract with a private arbitration agency."
     
    ;-)
     
    Ed




    Post 23

    Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 9:44pmSanction this postReply
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    Robert: ... not true - James Hill built his without EM usage....
    You are right (as always).  I knew better but I was thinking of the settled East.  That was the image in my mind as I wrote.  With unowned land, huge tracts that no one had claimed, yes, the western regions would have been open for use by the railroads.  But in the East the matter was different already by 1840 and by 1860, the governments were hustling to get in (on over or through) railroads which effectively shut down the canals. 

    That, too, is a problem in governmentalism.  I'm a fan of canals. (Like airships, we never made enough use of them.)  The government invested in canals just in time for railroads to be invented.  They cartelized the railroads just in time for trucks to be invented.  They brought trucking under federal regulation just as airplanes were getting big enough to haul tons of freight.  Now we have the Internet.  You gotta hand it to them: they have a perfect record.


    Post 24

    Saturday, March 8, 2008 - 7:11amSanction this postReply
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    How does one have an Army that provides services only for those who pay?

    Unless the non-payers are denied the service, one has the Free Rider problem.

    Bob Kolker


    Post 25

    Monday, March 10, 2008 - 9:02amSanction this postReply
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    Bob,

    See my article (in the Articles Section of this forum) entitled "Free Riders versus Forced Riders," in which I refute the free-rider rationale for taxation.

    - Bill

    Post 26

    Monday, March 10, 2008 - 9:35amSanction this postReply
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    It is not a problem if enough people are willing to pay for an Army and are not bothered that some people will be getting the service for nothing. Those who pay can demand higher prices and wages to cover the difference and the others will pay indirectly.

    If enough people refuse to pay for an Army, then we won't have an Army and the problem (if it is a problem) will go away.

    I am content to pay for my Army (faults and all). It is currently killing people I want to see dead. That makes it quite worth the price (for me). My only regret is that I am now too old to be out there doing my share of the wet-work. Darn!

    Bob Kolker


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