RoR: Forum

Orion - tonight was the 10th birthday celebration at Parliament for The Free Radical. Politicians from across the spectrum expressed their admiration for that achievement. The sour note of the evening was having to deal with Saddamites. These vile bastards simply do not let up. They chase me everywhere, arguing that America should not have toppled Saddam. I am fed up to my back teeth with them, the low-life Chamberlains. It was with great pleasure I came home & put *your* article up on SOLOHQ. Thank you, dear boy!

Post 1

Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 5:32am

I (whom Linz regards as a Saddamite) just sanctioned Orion's marvellous article. Go figure.

Post 2

Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 8:55am

Thanks, guys for all the kind words... They mean more to me than you may know.

I wrote this long before I ever submitted it to this website, but nobody would run it. I just want people to see these words all over the internet and dare I hope the entire world, in as great a number as possible, because I think that this kind of "drivel" is what really turns the tide.

We just can't assume any longer that this kind of country will always exist; it could easily be destroyed overnight.

And as insane as it might perhaps sound, we have to actually come right out and present an argument for continuing such a nation, and even promoting more nations like it.

Post 3

Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 9:37am

Great article. A rousing tribute to the greatest nation on Earth, and in history. I pity the fool who tries to threaten it. Lead poisoning is a nasty way to go.

Post 4

Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 2:04pm

For rabid, scathing anti-Americanism, try www.michaelmoore.com. I'd love to have a long conversation with him to get to his premises--and then throttle him, likely.

On paper, this is a great nation. In practice, it is the best the world has to offer. But there are indeed too many people pissing on Lady Liberty. That includes the political Left as well as the Right. These people ~really~ dont get it at all.

I am so disgusted with the erosion of individual liberty via Bush initiatives like the Patriot Act, and with reports of the torture of the POW's who we unilaterally categorize as something different to avoid due process and/or the Geneva Conventions. I will not vote for him again.

I am so disgusted about how cohesive the Left is in pissing all over anything American that the very word is becoming synonymous with "wrong" or "evil." Can America and Americans do ~anything~ right or good? Has the poltical Left suddenly become the French? I cannot vote for a Democrat with such a platform.

And there is no realistic third choice. If ever there were a time for a third political party, it is now.

Good article.

Post 5

Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 5:59pm

... does it make sense to simply sit back and allow the barbarian hordes to tear this country apart?

Of course it doesn't, but sadly that is exactly what we are doing. Daily hordes of barbarians invade us across both our boarders, north and south, with no other purpose than to loot and plunder the wealth of the American people with the blessing and aid of the American government whose job it is to first protect the American citizens from foreign aggression. Instead of protecting Americans, our government sends our soldiers to kill and be killed in some third-rate, backwater, poverty stricken, country with no navy, no air force, and no possibility of being a threat to the American people. For what purpose? To save the people of that nation from a "monster," by enslaving and impoverishing the American people, to finance the noble cause, to the tune of $ 5 billion a month.

This country has forgotten the words of this famous Saddamite:

"America goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher of the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." --John Quincy Adams, Secretary of State, 1821.

She used to be the champion of her own, now it is her own she tramples under her feet as she rushes off to save the word for, "democracy," the very disease this country was founded to eliminate.

I love America, the America of John Quincy Adams, Ayn Rand, and the founders of it. Does anyone know where I can find that America?

Regi

Post 6

Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 8:09pm

"America goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher of the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." --John Quincy Adams, Secretary of State, 1821.

She used to be the champion of her own, now it is her own she tramples under her feet as she rushes off to save the word for, "democracy," the very disease this country was founded to eliminate.

I love America, the America of John Quincy Adams, Ayn Rand, and the founders of it. Does anyone know where I can find that America?

As far as Ayn Rand goes, she would have supported our right, as well as any other nations right, to go into Iraq and dispose of that dictator as well as any other dictator. Whether or not she would have supported the action at the time we went in is debatable, but the right do to so is not. But the war in Iraq goes far beyond any mere "liberation" of the people. To believe that the middle east has no effect on the US and that we should stay in our sand box and play with our own toys is to be blindsided by reality. The middle east is a breeding ground for anti-west terrorists who know nothing other than to kill. To break down briefly the problem, I offer this quick history:
1) Western Democracy, customs, and capitalism influences countries in Middle East
2) Fundamentalist Islamist dislike this, attempt to overthrow Islamic countries influenced by US (this was a process by which Islamists would form terror organizations to keep Islamic governments fundamentally Islamic.
3) Islamists find this strategy unsuccessful, set sites instead for the first time on the main corruptor - the United States.

These people are not going away. We have been hit too many times over the past decade to merely just do nothing. At worst, the offensive has kept them on their heels and the presence of Al-Qaida operations severely disrupted. We can't do nothing any longer.

I wrote more on my webpage which I have not posted here:
http://www.dustinmhawkins.com/foreingpolicy.html

Post 7

Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 11:30pm

Great article, Orion.

Because I have no desire to feel some warm, fuzzy glow of being the world's liberator--at least not yet, anyhow : P--and because I know for a fact that the America Regi Firehammer and John Q. Adams describe and love is the same I love, I'm sick of America's leaders and America's "intelligentsia" tip-toeing around the tulips with the "people" who want the only way of Life for human beings to be utterly corrupted and vanquished.

America owes these savages nothing. Not even their freedom; especially if it's bought with our own.

Post 8

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 3:09am

Thanks Orion. Very inspiring and moving!

I often wonder why those of an anti-American disposition never ask themselves how the USA continues to be one of the wealthiest and most prosperous countries in the world? There is an argument that is often propagated by them, even in the West, that the USA owes its wealth to the accident of being a large country with plentiful resources. Obviously this is nonsense - China, Russia, South Africa and even Iraq also fall into this category. It appears that many anti-American Arabs also feel that they would be much better off if their countries were completely isolated from the USA and the West. However, I am sure if they got their wish (and got the isolation they wanted) they wouldn't know what to do with it - apart from kill one another in a blood bath to see who will take power. For those fundamentalists and non-fundamentalists that survive, they can expect to live in slavery in a new type of Ayatollah Dictatorship. After which, the Ayatollah Dictatorship would still be blaming the USA and the West for it's poverty and hardship, and still be propagating violence and terrorism.

It is truly time for anti-American proponents to finally wake up and to understand the difference between the logic of America compared to their own murderous philosophy....

"In this country, like absolutely nowhere else in the world, you have the freedom to act on your latent convictions, and stand apart from the oppressive conformity of the herd. You can dare to be different� you can question the established order of things and design a better way. In America, you can actually make things better."

Post 9

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 9:23am

I would rather sling hash in America than be a CEO in Canada. I am not kidding!

But sadly there are many roadblocks to my dream.

Post 10

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 9:34am

Guys,

Thanks for all the positive feedback, it means a lot. And if you would email this essay to other people, local and national media, I'm convinced it would set off a firestorm that could change the course of this whole thing in the positive direction.

Reginald,

I read your post. Are you saying that after we remove the heads of these foreign enemy nations, we should withdraw and tend to our borders and interiors more? I'm not saying that at all facetiously, either...

Can we police our entire borders for those trying to enter bearing anti-American sentiments? How do we screen for such an attitude?

Also, what would you suggest for screening those already within our nation who bear this anti-rational, anti-America attitude?

I'm serious here, no sarcasm at all. Will you give suggestions?
O.

Post 11

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 9:48am

I have one other question:

Is the anti-America media in this country guilty of treason?

They only seem to want to selectively focus on and magnify American faults, but never anti-American savagery.

In fact, in today's paper where I live, the Associated Press (AP) reported that a Sikh (a Muslim variant of Hinduism) has mysteriously just been appointed as the new president of India, by the exiting president.

Apparently, a Gandhi descendent (a woman) was actually elected by majority vote, yet has mysteriously and suddenly stated that she will NOT accept the position, to make way for this Sikh fellow.

The AP reporter then took an entire paragraph to sumptuously describe and extoll the beautiful virtues of Sikhism as a religion, which was not done for Hinduism in the same article.

Um, am I the only one who smells something rotten here?

Does this kind of "news coverage" remind anyone else of that old Rod Serling "Twilight Zone" episode called "To Serve Man", where aliens came to earth posing under the pretext of peace and love, in order to earn our total trust so that we would lower our defenses and they could actually cultivate us as a food source?

Is this all due to Arab oil money influencing our media, or actual, ideological infiltration?

Post 12

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 10:28am

Excellent (and inspiring) article, Orion!

I fully agree with the logic supporting the United States, which is really about the logic supporting the VALUES on which the US was founded (it all goes back to the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights).

Perhaps with Luther's new article about Book Clubs, a standard reading (starting off all of the objectivist book clubs) may be these 3 documents, or at least excerpts from them.

As to how this logic - this logic of the values of reason, freedom, individuality, progress - affects foreign policy, I believe that the answer is less clear, and our own disagreement - ie. Saddamites vs. non-Saddamites - is what I appeal to in order to justify this position.

A first step toward understanding foreign policy must start with complete list of relevant variables informing action and a subsequent hierarchical ordering of the values they aim at. I have not seen this done (and in contemporary 'politics' it would indeed be uncharacteristic!) by the popular press.

The value of action must always be weighed against the value of not acting. Orion's article is a wonderful inspiration - but I suspect the foggy spectacles that the masses are wearing will require a more comprehensive look at the relevant details of decisions and the comparative values that they aim at in competing for our sanction.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 5/20, 10:31am)

Post 13

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 11:22am

Orion,

The leader elected by the majority vote in India (Sonia Gandhi) explicitly stated that all privatization of state resources would end, and her leadership was founded on the bedrock of the Indian Communist party. Consequently, the Indian stock market lost 15% the day she was elected destroying billions of dollars of private wealth in the process. She claimed to turn the PM post down because pressure surrounding her foreign birth as she was from Italy and raised a Christian (not Hindu). Your local press coverage may have been superficial and unsatisfactory, but not as bad as it could have been. Think if the Leftist media cried outrage over the lost potential of her statist policies! I don't smell anything funny there except a country narrowly averting a catastrophe.

Dave

Post 14

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 7:10am

A great article. Particularly the part about heresy - how essential it is to question, even the most ancient traditions or the most universal notions. And sadly, hatred of America, coupled with a racist hatred of Americans is almost universal here. I read in the student newspaper last week:

"I just want to say that I too, hate Americans...They are always talking about how great their country is...They have seriously caused every single problem the world has today"

In fact, it seems to be...

"...some sort of insanely mindless, conditioned reflex of purely jealous and unjustifiably proud spite"

A very apt description!
However, I disagree with this sentence:

"In this country, like absolutely nowhere else in the world, you have the freedom to act on your latent convictions, and stand apart from the oppressive conformity of the herd"

There are various other countrues that are just as free, or in some areas (eg drug laws) freer than the US. They may not have a rational philosophical foundation like the US, but in practice, the US has no monopoly of freedom. I don't think New Zealand, for example, is either better or worse than America in terms of freedom. After all, I'm acting on my convictions, and standing apart from the herd, by writing this - and yet I don't see jackbooted thugs smashing through the door!

I have a more important disagreement with Regi::

"Daily hordes of barbarians invade us across both our boarders, north and south"

Are you advocating closed borders? What happened to "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"?
And also:

"democracy," the very disease this country was founded to eliminate"

America was founded as a *republic* - because of the actions of a dictatorial king. In fact the main grievances were about *lack of democratic representation*. America was founded to eliminate absolute monarchy, and to defend democratic principles - and while democracy certainly isn't liberty, I would choose it over absolute monarchy any day.

Phil

Post 15

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 1:17pm

Dave,

Whoa; I didn't know all that... the article left all that out. Thanks for the info.
========================

Ed,

Have you read a recent book by Frum and Perle called An End To Evil? I have, and from what you're describing, it almost seems to fit the bill of what you're calling for.

Jeremy,
Marcus,
Philip,

Thanks for the feedback; I had a truly great time writing this one.
O.

Post 16

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 1:21pm

Byron,
Scott,

Just read your comments; very cool. Thanks for the comps. Keep up the fight.

Post 17

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 7:46pm

Orion,

Ed,

Have you read a recent book by Frum and Perle called An End To Evil?

No I haven't, but I will look into it (for a potential comment/reply to you) ...

Ed

Post 18

Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 10:45pm

Ed,

Well, it's a bold book, but I wrote the authors at The American Enterprise Institute that they did not fully understand that it is true Islam, and not rogue sects, that are the problem. After fully explaining what I've said here, they wrote back something to the effect of:

"Well, if it turns out you're actually right, that's going to be one hell of a nightmare situation".

O.

Post 19

Friday, May 21, 2004 - 12:14pm