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Post 20

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 5:36amSanction this postReply
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The early image of The Kiss posted by Palin is not the real one, or not the life sized one, the man's hand is pathetic. Go here and see the difference:
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/rodin/kiss.jpg.html

Barbara, that goes to show you have good taste.

Ah, I am sorry MK...but all I can offer you is that there is a living artist who has never compromised, as Rodin and many others have, guess who?

Newberry


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Post 21

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 5:46amSanction this postReply
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That goes for you too George! Being a fucking hard ass has its romantic benefits!!!

Newberry


Post 22

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 6:20amSanction this postReply
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Hope I won't bore you all if I comment on Rodin. I won't go into my love/hate affair with his work. Haha, I find when I really let loose with my thoughts and feelings I start sounding like a passionate wagnerian lunatic, the place I feel most at home, and I tend to loose people in its wake, sigh. Rodin made an incredibly great contribution to the history of art. He used the entire form of the human body to convey momentary gesture of an intense emotion, his woman squatting in pain or fear, it is not pretty but a tour de force in figure as expression. Artists before him normally used facial expressions or hand gestures to convey meaning, the David for example, in which he is looking intensely has if sizing up an opponent but his body is not.

 

Going back to Michael K's comment about film directing, yes, there are many cases of great artists, like Rubens, using assistants to paint or sculpt parts of works. A contemporary example is Jeff Koons who apparently can neither draw, paint, or sculpt but comes up with "ideas", like is Michael Jackson piece, which he directed a figurine manufacturer’s artisans to make the world's largest porcelain figurine. I believe it has sold for millions. And it should not shock anyone that Koon's is one of the postmodern leaders on the contemporary art scene.

 

Michael

(Edited by Newberry on 3/09, 6:22am)

(Edited by Newberry on 3/09, 6:27am)

(Edited by Newberry on 3/09, 6:31am)


Post 23

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 6:43amSanction this postReply
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Micharl N. : I find when I really let loose with my thoughts and feelings I start sounding like a passionate wagnerian lunatic, the place I feel most at home, and I tend to loose people in its wake, ..

Nah, If I were to do it people would say that, when you do it, to paraphrase Linz ...  "Newberry's an artist, so anything goes!"

Michael N.: ... yes, there are many cases of great artists, like Rubens, using assistants to paint or sculpt parts of works.

Sigh! Well that's 2 down! What's next, Van Gogh really had both his ears? Tell us about Michelangelo, I am confident that is 'safe' ground.

On a serious note, your comments about Rodin, Ruebens, and Koons - how does this affect your estimation of them within your hierarchy of the term ‘greatness’?

 
George


Post 24

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 7:38amSanction this postReply
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Michael N - I vote for you to post any comments you want.  I find them enlightening and fascinating!

Jason


Post 25

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 7:58amSanction this postReply
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G: Nah, If I were to do it people would say that, when you do it, to paraphrase Linz ...  "Newberry's an artist, so anything goes!"

New: O.K, what I am all about: …vibrations, channeling a million flights of energy, that cris-cross, in thin colors with different textures, thoughts and passions collide, play, defuse and  blood pulses and litheness soars…

Michael N.: ... yes, there are many cases of great artists, like Rubens, using assistants to paint or sculpt parts of works.

G: Sigh! Well that's 2 down! What's next, Van Gogh really had both his ears? Tell us about Michelangelo, I am confident that is 'safe' ground.

 

New: Yes! Not about Van Gogh, but Michelangelo is sublime by every standard I know except that he used male models for his female subjects!? Damn, it is so fucking hard to be a pure and truthful artist!!! He did try to have assistants on the Sistine Chapel but fired them and re-did their work when they couldn’t even paint garlands up to his standard.

G: On a serious note, your comments about Rodin, Ruebens, and Koons - how does this affect your estimation of them within your hierarchy of the term ‘greatness’?

 

New: Koons is easy. He is a great postmodernist.

 

Michelangelo and da Vinci set the awesome standard of artist as creator and not as an artisan. They took commissions and preceded to elevate everything they touched and the collector/patron swallowed it. Rubens is a great, great painter: passion, knowledge, spontaneity fly off his brush. But he is no Roark, as he was on the “take” how to “knock-off” huge commissioned works of royalty, making ugly subjects beautiful, having assistants paint in entire backgrounds…definitely a pragmatist.

 

Rodin conveyed his fear of seeing work by Michelanglo and get this: when Rodin saw the Captives he felt relief, in the sense that he was given permission not to finish off work. The Captives are a group of unfinished sculptures of M’s. M did not conceive of them as finished but simply had more work than going on than he could all do, like making the dome of St. Peter’s, Sistine Chapel, The Last Judgment, etc. Rodin went home rationalizing the Captives has the standard and preceded to leave whole sections of bodies in raw clay states, or leaving whole parts of bodies off. Which is no problem for studies or sketches but is very questionable if we think of “masterpiece” has a great completed work. BTW, anyone who is familiar with life-drawing has seen or experienced how much easier it is to have an interesting drawing as a spontaneous gesture sketch…and then the pain and horror of developing a full on finished work, and how much easier it is to kill the piece the more you work on it. A finished piece full of life is not anything to take for granted.

 

BTW, I am here in California, and I have already painted 11 plein air landscapes, it has been exhilarating, everyone has different colors and moods…

Michael

 




Post 26

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 10:29amSanction this postReply
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George asked Michael N:  
On a serious note, your comments about Rodin, Reubens, and Koons--how does this affect your estimation of them within your hierarchy of the term "greatness"?
If anyone is interested in my own opinion, it is that it may or may not affect the judgment of the greatness of an artist, depending on the nature and extent of his assistants' work, and the reasons why one considers the works to be great.

Others' input into an artwork, and the fact that artists vary in their ideas and attention to small matters, makes it unreasonable to read too much into details of the execution and content. I see such subjective interpretations a lot on this forum, and I think it also exists on this thread.


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Post 27

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 11:06amSanction this postReply
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Michael N,

Hahahahahahahaha. I too have had the muse's cigar blow up in my face. Only one who has had a brilliant flash of inspiration turn into a hopelessly mediocre horrible dud after hours on hours on hours of excruciating work (and all that self-torture with doubts!!!) can really understand what it feels like. I don't paint, but the merciless muse does not limit her sadism just to painting.

You are sooooo right. There is nothing that should be taken for granted in fine finished artistic creations.

I see between the lines that you have issues with Rodin. I don't care, dude. The Kiss is BAD and I for one don't care what anyone thinks. If y'all don't want it, that's OK. I'll take it.

About that film directing thing., and Rodin's rationalizing relief at seeing unfinished Michelangelo... ah shit, I don't even want to think about it right now...

I also suspect that I have a treat in store for me. I'm the new kid on the block, so I really don't know your work yet. Just not enough time with all this catch-up reading. I am really looking forward to it and will start surfing the links today (it better be good).

Michael K

Edit - Koons's Italian ex is a much better artist, with infinitely more integrity, in her field than he is in his.

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 3/09, 7:17pm)


Post 28

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 2:35pmSanction this postReply
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BTW, I am here in California, and I have already painted 11 plein air landscapes, it has been exhilarating, everyone has different colors and moods…

 

Hi Michael,

 

Sounds like you have a good time there. I just looked up what does "plein air" mean in the dictionary. Hopefully we will see some of your new work soon...  

 


Post 29

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 4:54pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

You applauded Michelangelo and da Vinci quite rightly. Brilliant artists!

How about Raphael? Although short-lived, he surely ranks highly with them.


Post 30

Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 7:29pmSanction this postReply
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N: Hey Rodney, were you drunk when you wrote your post? I didn’t understand a word of it.

---------------

 

Michael K.: “I don't paint, but the merciless muse does not limit her sadism just to painting.”

 

N: Namesake, I hope that with creativity you have had some experiences other than masochistic ones!?

 

MK: “I see between the lines that you have issues with Rodin. I don't care, dude. The Kiss is BAD and I for one don't care what anyone thinks. If y'all don't want it, that's OK. I'll take it.”

 

N: “ISSUES!!!” Hahaha, no The Kiss is, to use your phrasing, awesome—I would just like to know who made it!

 

MK: “I also suspect that I have a treat in store for me…[I] will start surfing the links today (it better be good).

 

N: (Muttering to myself “better be good.”) You amuse me.

-------------------

 

Hi Hong, yes I am having a blast…I am staying in beautiful home overlooking La Jolla and the Pacific Ocean, all by myself (sigh), the full use of BMW SUV, makes me think of the advantages of making tons of money!!! Yes I will get pics of the work but won’t be able to post the images until later in the month, may earlier…Thanks for asking.

-----------

 

Hi Marcus,

 

Oh god…Raphael. I think his paintings extremely beautiful, the hands are always amazing…but…he was known for his pyramid compositions, a person’s head center top and flanked by two lower forms that form a pyramid. Michelangelo made two oil paintings, one unfinished, and in that one painting he originated the pyramid composition! Raphael then freely used that form of composition. Also, little story: Raphael was great friends with an architect that had the keys to the Sistine Chapel while Michelangelo was working on the ceiling, over seven years. Virtually no one saw the ceiling until I think the half way point…prior to that unveiling Raphael had painted a series of frescos, wall paintings, that were totally lifted from Michelangelo’s designs for the ceiling, which became obvious to those who could piece the puzzle together. You see at first it looked like Michelangelo had copied Raphael because R had his frescos first before the public eye…adds slight to injury in my eye!

 

Conclusion, Raphael is brilliant, though not an innovator and, in some ways, a piece of shit.

---------

 

Jason, thanks for the encouragement, hahaha, I will work on it…In writing I don’t express much my inner, and very ruthless, passion for art or life…though it is there in my work if one knows what to look for.

 

Michael



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Post 31

Saturday, July 2, 2005 - 12:36amSanction this postReply
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In the spirit of introducing snippets of little known facts about Rodin, I offer the following:

In L'Art, which is apparently a collection of lectures by Rodin, he said:  "In representing the universe as he imagines it, the artist formulates his own dreams. It is his own soul that he celebrates." (p. 226)  (This quote was found in DeWitt H. Parker's The Analysis of Art [Yale University Press, 1926].)

Sure sounds a hell of a lot like "The Psycho-Epistemology of Art" and "Art and Sense of Life," don't you think?

Best to all,
Roger Bissell


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Post 32

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 11:12amSanction this postReply
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I love "The Kiss" for its scuptural artistry (it really is impressive up close) for its sense of movement and passion, and for its sense of a particular couple.  She's leaning back as if in surrender, yet she's also embracing the man, and he, too, has a particular way of touching her.  These aren't two generic people; they are individuals, with their own ways of being together and of kissing each other.  The closer an artist looks at the individuals he is depicting, ironically, the more universal the theme, and I think that's why the sculpture is so popular.

As for "The Thinker," I've never liked it.  He looks uncomfortable.  Maybe if I knew what he was thinking about...


Post 33

Monday, September 19, 2005 - 4:40pmSanction this postReply
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Lydia-

Thanks for illuminating one of the many reasons that I love you.  You made me rethink my estimation of this piece of art, and you did it through a profound statement:

The closer an artist looks at the individuals he is depicting, ironically, the more universal the theme
Reminds me of Richard Feynman's statement that "if you look at something close enough, you participate in the entire universe."

Welcome to SOLO ;).  I look forward to more of your contributions to aesthetics.


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