Long on Plato

Long on Plato - IV
by Fred Seddon

REPUBLIC

Seddon: Why don’t we turn now to the Republic. Long quotes it five times.

Plato: And in doing so confuses two different methods. On p. 10 he tells us, “The Socratic Method--also called ‘dialectic’--proceeds by question and answer:” Then on p. 11, in the first half of a quilt quotation he writes,

(Dialectical reason) treats suppositions not as first principles but as suppositions, like stepping stones and first steps, passing onward to reach what is no supposition: the first principle of everything. Having grasped this, it reverses direction and . . . descends to a conclusion. . . .

S: But he’s confusing the Socratic method with the hypothetical-deductive method.

P: Aided no doubt by his calling both of them “dialectics.”

S: And what about the quilt quotation itself, is that also an error?

P: No. I do have Socrates give three statements of the divided line, one at 509d, one at 511e and the last at 533e-534a. He is right on the money there.

S: Then his whole argument rests on a confusion.

P: Yes.

S: Anything else while were on the Republic.

P: This next isn’t a big blunder, just a misquoting.

S: And where does this occur?

P: On p. 12 he writes, “Plato compares the philosopher’s dialectical ascent from the obscurity of ordinary beliefs to the clarity of the Good to the prisoner’s escaping from a dark cave to glimpse the sun for the first time.” To back this up he quotes 508b-509b.

S: And the problem with that is?

P: It’s not a passage from the cave section of the work.

S: Explain.

P: Well, let me give some context. At 506d Glaucon asks Socrates for a philosophical explication of the Good and he tell him that while he cannot satisfy his desire for the Good, he will provide some images of the Good. Socrates then proceeds with the images of the Sun (507b-508d), the Divided Line (509d-511e; and a later statement at 521c-535a) and finally the Cave (514a-521b). When Long quotes Socrates to back up his reference to the cave, he is actually quoting from the Sun image! I just don’t know how he could make such a slip. But again it’s not a very egregious error and can be corrected simply by quoting some lines from 514a to 521b.

S: You’ve generous. Anything else.

P: His last reference to the Republic is from the image of the cave section and he quotes some lines from 513b-d.

S: And what is he trying to prove?

P: He is trying to prove that “Platonic rationality does not do much that look like reasoning. . . .in the moment of operation, reason qua substantive reason does not infer, does to deduce, does not reason; it merely sees.” Then comes the quotation.

S: Sounds like part of the argument for you being a “mystical intuitionist.” But what about the quotation from 513b-d?

P: Let me reproduce Long’s translation of 518b-d.

education isn’t the sort of thing some self-appointed experts say it is: now they claim to be putting knowledge into a soul that lacks it, like putting sight into eyes that are blind. . . . But this power is present in each soul; and the organ with which each person learns is like the eye which cannot be turned from darkness to the light without turning the whole body. . . .This very art of leading-around is a matter of effecting this turning in whatever manner is easiest and least subject to resistance--not by implanting sight into a soul, but by redirecting a soul that possesses sight but is improperly oriented and does not look in the direction is should.

From this he concludes I, not Socrates mind you, is a mystical intuitionist.

S: I have a feeling you’ve got a reply and it’s going to depend on restoring the context.

P: Right. This passage comes from the image of the cave section and I would just remind Long that though it is an image about education, he does get that right, it is one the doesn’t not involve tracking “truth in virtue of an ineffable insight into the nature of the real.” Socrates does use sight in a metaphorical sense, but he does not have the prisoners go from blindness to direct insight. There is sight and references to sight all through the cave image. The prisoners see the shadows on the wall. They see the men carrying artifacts after their release. They see the central fire and the ascent up out of the cave. Once out of the cave and accustomed to the light of the sun, they see reflections in the water, and later things that are so reflected. “And from there he could turn to beholding the things in heaven and heaven itself, more easily at night --looking at the light of the start and the moon--than by day--looking at the sun and sunlight.” (516a)

S: Here I don’t find your argument as convincing as the above.

P: Well, maybe in a spirit of benevolence I’ll simply let it go at that. But I must insist that it is not me speaking but rather Socrates.

S: Of course.

P: And I would point out that Socrates is never as prodigal in his statements of metaphysical ultimates as Long’s quotations seem to imply. Even in the Republic he is frequently saying things like, “But God knows whether what I am saying is true.” (517b) I always have him leaving room for debates and discussion.

S: That is, of course, obvious. Shall we move on to the Cratylus.

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