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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 1:23amSanction this postReply
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I liked this, Marcus. The book certainly does paint another side of Rand contrary to the dogmatic portrait. And I'll admit to falling into the traps that Rand cautions us to avoid in the past. This article is a good reminder of that.

You quoted Rand: "There is nothing wrong in having 'demons.' What is wrong is evading them and doing nothing about them."

Rand and Jung would have had quite a picnic together. :)


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 5:16amSanction this postReply
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Thanks for this GREAT article, which I have sanctioned, Marcus. I will never use thew term "Randroid" again!

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 7:05amSanction this postReply
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Ayn Rand: "But you are there to correct the mistake. Again, there is nothing wrong in making mistakes. What is wrong is not correcting them."

And she said that, back when her listeners had no access to computer-facilitated editing! Back then, many people were trying to avoid making mistakes in the first place, because it was so much work to correct the mistakes. But why do some still pre-censor their writing today?

(Typo alert to Marcus: did you mean "protege'" when you wrote "prodigy?")

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 7:48amSanction this postReply
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Good work, loved the first quote.  This is the kind of post that would get you banned in an instant from sites like the Objectivist Forum.  Kudos for creating it.

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 7:51amSanction this postReply
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This is one of the best articles about Objectivism I have ever read. Thank  you!

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 8:26amSanction this postReply
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Bravo, Marcus. Those are truly words to live by. It is though attitudes that you have described that will cause Objectivism to flourish. Dogma be damned. Rand knew it — why doesn't Peikoff? (rhetorical question)

Sam


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 8:51amSanction this postReply
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Yes I did mean "protege". Quite a funny error when you consider the article.

It is quite ironic that Philip Coates just wrote yesterday,

And it's my view that Ayn Rand made a number of mistakes which have been copied by every single one of the movements and leaders since.
 
http://solohq.org/Forum/GeneralForum/0570.shtml#15

Ayn Rand may have gotten a far worse rap than she deserved.

This book was published in 2001, and I wonder why those at ARI would not now be questioning the folly of ritualistic Objectivism? Even earlier considering they already would have had the tapes for years, and I assume Peikof was in attendance at the lectures.

However, what struck me most was Rand's account of the movie review article. We have all read and maybe written articles like that ourselves. What strikes me most about this, is the criticism of those that write about Objectivism as a "duty".

Not a duty, but if you feel passionately about it, it should flow freely from your sub-conscious. Now, that is a real challenge. Not just in terms of Objectivism, but in everyday life.

Human beings are social creatures, we tend to submit to a certain type of expected behaviour. We do in fact feel "duty-bound" to certain norms. Even more than that, most people want to liked and admired. Breaking that mold is not the most natural thing in the world.


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 9:58amSanction this postReply
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2001 is right...

I read it back then, and I've never seen much discussion of those particular passages.


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 10:00amSanction this postReply
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Excellent article Marcus. It brings to mind the whole discussion that happened prior to the "Elmore" situation. Rules versus Reason in my mind.

Ethan


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 10:27amSanction this postReply
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This is an excellent article, Marcus. I had no idea Rand had written such things about Objectivists—thank you for pointing them out. Like others here, I have fallen into some of the traps Rand describes many times. I also think that there is (especially in light of this article) an unhealthy focus by some of those in the open-system camp on Ayn Rand's personal life and character ... as if they think they can prove that they have put a lot of independent thought into the philosophy by denigrating its author.

I fixed the protege/prodigy mix-up, thought that word seemed a little out of place but protege never occurred to me so I wasn't sure how to fix it.


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 11:19amSanction this postReply
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Marcus this is really very very good. One of the best articles I've read here. I especially enjoyed the Rand passages you quoted and discussed. A true pleasure. Makes me want to rush home and do some more reading.

John

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 11:58amSanction this postReply
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Everybody seems to assume that the Peikoff / ARI crowd encourages what Rand calls "ritualistic Objectivism," but I wonder if this is true.  What's objectionable about them is their (futile) insistence that nobody can talk about Objectivism or about AR without their permission.  A contingent, pavlovian association may hold between one and the other, but they aren't the same.  If this insistence doesn't make them ritualistic Objectivsts, then it must be something else, and I'm not aware of what that is.

Part of the explanation, I suspect, is that a lot of people who latch on to Rand's work are inclined to be this way already, and they try to blame Rand or Peikoff or Branden for the personalities they brought with them or observed in others.

(I can see it coming: "ritualistic Objectivist" as the new term of opprobrium, succeeding to the place occupied at various times by "social metaphysician," "whim-worshipper" and "context-dropper."  We were due for a new one anyway.)


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 12:09pmSanction this postReply
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That was a really great article and needs to be read by a lot of Objectivists. And just as others in this thread have stated, I too have seen some of that very same dogmatic behavior in myself at times. Not unlike when I read Eric Hoffer's "True Believer" several years ago and was horrified at how much of my younger, angrier, naive self I saw in that book.

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Post 13

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 12:57pmSanction this postReply
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Great article Marcus. I read this essay a few months ago, and loved this partial re-reading just as much as my first time through. Thanks.

The friction between the die-hard ARI folks and non-ARI objectivists, and the way each camp is presented by the other, has sincerely bothered me from the beginning of my self-Objectivist-ication crusade (that phrase should probably be stricken from my lexicon....hehe. Sorry :o). So I decided to find out for myself, to see it and experience it first-hand, and make my own decision.

I went to ARI's Objectivist Conference a few weeks ago in San Diego, without knowing a soul there. I wondered, would I see a lot of Randroidian clones, Objectivist prostheletizers, and people strutting around envisioning themselves the next Roark or Galt? It was as much a research mission for me as a learning experience (and, as it turned out, book-buying spree!). What I found was better than I could have hoped. Each lecturer, each attendee, each organizer and cashier-jockey was beautifully, refreshingly their own person. If asked, each may very well have said that Objectivism (with a capital O) is that set of premises, that philosophy, enunciated and propounded by Rand, in her own words, in her own time, without subsequent deletions, additions or modifications. That said, it was utterly obvious to me that each person (especially those who had been "living it" for a while) had their own take, their own way of integrating Objectivism into their lives, for their own ends, in their own way. There were a variety of personalities (some of which were frighteningly appealing to me, others that I respectfully clashed with), a variety of ways each person explained a given principle, issue, topic or problem, different ways of dressing, speaking, gesturing - people did what worked for them, and were totally open to being asked why, whether they had the answers or not.

In all, this was the happiest group of people I've ever been around; I felt like I could walk up to any one and, with the appropriate amount of respect and manners, level with any of them on any issue. And that's what I like about the SOLOist crowd too. On the whole, I'm exceedingly impressed with people's openness, civility, reason, fairness, non-big-headedness (I know we're all egoists at heart ;o), etc. For that reason, I enjoy being here, *and* I look forward to going to other ARI events, and taking classes from them this fall. For me, at least, ARI, SOLO, my campus club, and scattered friends who've never read Rand comprise (for me) a fluid community of like-minded, life-loving people that are fuel for my soul. Particulars on specific points may differ; specific points can be of varying importance to different people. Because my correctness on any given issue is subject to revision at any time, it's the constant of a common approach that allows me to continually value, appreciate, and interact with these (and you) people throughout my life.

This last is one of the most resounding points I hear in Rand's essay, and a compelling reason for me to believe that the boundaries different Objectivists put up around themselves (usually "us" and "them") are not a permanent concern, but more like a series of growing pains. And I'm one who loves to think past accute discomforts and plan the direction of my growth with a big fat smile on my face.

Katie


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 12:59pmSanction this postReply
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I'm very surprised that more of you haven't read this before.  When I originally read this I was happy to see that Rand had made efforts to correct some of the cultural problems that occurred within the Objectivist movement while she was alive.  Problems that I think were partially a symptom of the methods employed by both her and Nathaniel Branden in running their movement and partially a symptom of lazy thinking on the part of some of those who join these types of movements with the tendency to "latch on" to something so that they can avoid thinking for themselves. 

 

This group of people can be easily identified by how they handle vague outsider attacks against "Objectivism".   You can see by their reaction that they have a clear emotional attachment to "Objectivism" or "Ayn Rand".  They get concerned over things like broad uninformed generalizations about "Objectivists" or ad hominem attacks against Ayn Rand.  The label "Objectivism" and possible flaws in Ayn Rand's personal life are entirely meaningless to those who are primarily concerned with individual thinking.  Emotional attachments to such things represent a retardation of intellectual development.  They show that the thinker has to at last some extent abandoned the quest for truth and rational values in favor of group identification and the emotional identification with authority figures who they look toward to make their judgments for them.     

 

Objectivism is primarily an intellectual approach -- it is not a belief system.  Objectivism provides the boundaries and the epistemological justification for individual thinking and value judgments.   What Ayn Rand said here is not an endorsement of sloppy thinking or simply "listening to your feelings".  Quite to the contrary, it is a demand that those who make use of her philosophical discoveries and methodology use these tools correctly to think for themselves.  There is no demand for perfection or omniscience, but there is a clear demand for intellectual honesty.  Intellectual honesty cannot take place when one is encumbered by silly emotional attachments to some group identification and worshipful deference to ideological authority figures.

 

 - Jason    

(Edited by Jason Quintana on 8/04, 1:32pm)


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 11:51amSanction this postReply
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Aye, truly an enlightening article! All this time I've viewed the sub-conscious as THE demon. I thought it best to put conscious thought forth in every aspect possible. But the truth of the matter is that that simply is not possible, lest one suppresses his sub-conscious, which is self-immolation.

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 2:35pmSanction this postReply
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Jason well said!

Katherine you said "There were a variety of personalities (some of which were frighteningly appealing to me..." what exactly did you mean by that?


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 3:17pmSanction this postReply
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Greg,

By "frighteningly appealing" I meant people whose personalities are so complementary to my own, and house so much potential in so many areas (professional discussion, personal intellectual discussions, common rapport, and on and on) that little red flags start going up in my mind - I'm in danger of crossing the line from intellectual colleague and stimulating co-conspirator to rigorous love interest. I like to keep all my ducks in a row, and not mix work and play. Some people just unknowingly have the power to scramble my carefully organized thoughts. The mind is, indeed, a potent aphrodisiac! :o).

Katie


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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 3:40pmSanction this postReply
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Hmm, I have always mixed work and pleasure.

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 3:48pmSanction this postReply
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Hmm, I have always mixed work and pleasure.

Hong,

Is this your sorbid confession of having extramartial affairs? ;-)


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